New atf gun law

[2700fps]

I live in Florida and collect mil surp rifles.

Could any one in the know, tell me how I will be affected regarding buying and selling to improve my collection.

They seem very hung up on making a “profit”.
EG. I buy a mil surp rifle 20 years ago for $50 and sell it today for $300???

Thanks.

Information

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[Sapper740]

The BATF&E takes a dim view of people getting around the more stringent regulations to be a dealer as opposed to being a collector. Having said that, C&R licensees are allowed to sell firearms acquired under their C&R, ostensibly to provide funds to acquire other firearms or to take a different direction as interests change. You are allowed to sell fireams at the prevailing market, even if it means you sold it for more than you paid for it. What would raise a red flag with the BATF&E is a constant and ongoing buying and selling curio and relic firearms. I don't know what level of activity would trip their alarm bells but the average collector tends to hold onto their purchases for years or even decades which makes it almost a dead cert that it will be sold at a "profit".

[Aragorn243]

I don't think they did anything new. Obama came out with this when he was President, and I don't even think they changed the wording. All they are doing is changing the perception of what they are going to enforce. Will it stand up in court? It isn't even a law so this current Supreme Court isn't likely going to enforce it, but can you afford the hassle of lower courts, having your collection confiscated, damaged.

They claim to have closed the gun show and internet loopholes which have never existed, again, a perception issue.

Private sales are the only thing left to control, but people buy and sell things for profit all the time so it's legally hard to make firearms it's own category where this is forbidden or regulated. They are one of the few things which tend to go up in value so it you sell it after owning it a few years, you'll make a profit.

What happened when Obama did it is all the guns disappeared from the flea markets, at least the guys that had tables of them. They have slowly reappeared over the years but not to the point they used to be. These fellows were often dealers in all but the license, and they were investigated in some instances and shut down. I go to an antique flea market pretty often and last week there was one guy selling three rifles and they were definitely modern. I watched him sell a guy an AK type for $800.00, no questions, the entire transaction took about 30 seconds. To be honest, I was shocked, and it made even me uncomfortable. In PA, you at least have the obligation to be confident you are not selling to someone that shouldn't possess a firearm. That is extremely vague, but you at least get the guy's name and address and look at his driver's license.

This transaction was something like this: "Oh, that's a ........, I had one a while back and sold it and wish I hadn't, how much?" "$800.00." "Cool, I'll take it" and he had a huge wad of $100 bills in his pocket handed them over and took the rifle.

First red flag is you never just pay a guy the asking price at a flea market. Like I said, made me uncomfortable.

I'm playing a wait and see game right now. I don't often sell anything anyway so it isn't likely to come up but I will be very careful if it does.

[Singer B]

As it was explained to me with my C&R, I have to hold something I purchase with it for at least a year and can then sell it if I find a better example of that piece or a better addition to the collection. I'm currently waiting to complete an auction with an Inland M1 that is a much better example than the mix master Inland I currently possess. If I obtain it, I will sell the original Inland since I will no longer need it. Since I bought it right at the start of covid, I'm pretty sure I can sell it for enough to cover the cost of the new one and just note the sale in my records book.

[Sapper740]

As it was explained to me with my C&R, I have to hold something I purchase with it for at least a year and can then sell it if I find a better example of that piece or a better addition to the collection.

There is no time limit on how long or how short you own a firearm acquired with an 03 FFL.

[Singer B]

There is no time limit on how long or how short you own a firearm acquired with an 03 FFL.

Very true, it was a recommendation from some other C&R holders to help avoid the appearance of using your C&R for profiting.

[2700fps]

Thanks for the reply’s.
Take the C and R out of the conversation.

What about Gunbroker since there is always an FFL involved?
What about Floridaguntrader where you meet face to face. Website online?

Thanks

[old tanker]

They keep shifting the goal posts. The definitions are ambiguous enough that it doesn't take much of a tin foil hat to realize an over zealous agent or US Attorney could charge almost anyone who has makes an occasional sale by claiming they were engaged in the business. Profit is not important, they have previously allowed as one could "lose money" and still be in the "business." Being a "poor businessman" is no defense. The most insidious threat is that no matter how weak their case may be, even a successful defense is likely to bankrupt the "target" with legal fees.

[CINDERS]

Seems you have your woes as well.
Our new FA Act is in the mix master due to be introduced around december 2024 we are fighting the good fight with 22000 signatures saying it is unworkable and an unjust burden on licensed firearm owners whilst the crims do as they please.
Somethings of note ~ restricted to 5 recreational f/a's for hunting, restricted to 5 competition target shooting rifles - a hunting rifle cannot be used on a rifle range for target shooting and vice versa a target rifle cannot be used for hunting (Which was in play anyway as they are club supported) it's restricting the comp guns that is the issue.
Farmers letters are being eradicated and they will run on a web based program that the farmers put your name into and you can only shoot on that property say you said a weekend shoot the police would come back and say ok Sat/Sun only, that type stuff AFAIK.
2 yearly physc tests, police are not subjected to the same requirement even though we had that Sydney police officer murder those 2 chaps with his service glock! (Jilted lover syndrome)
The thickness of the safes increased to 8mm.
Also when you go through this you'll have to pay to have what rifles you've managed to keep so that's round $380 for 1 rifle of you can do up to 5 for that price.
Also co-licensed firearms are going to be abolished so my wife is co licensed for mine, there is plenty more like no owning stocks, barrels, extractors, bolt heads etc.

But the biggest kicker in the new FA Act is they have inserted the word "Thing" which means just about whatever they construe it to be so they are in the throws of renaming West AU "Little Russia".
Its all about vote grabbing the Police have misled the public with scaremongering tactics one instance was a news televised shoot with a 50 cal weapon there was big problems with the whole lying fiasco,
The rifle range in question was not gazetted for that caliber, the fall out template was inadequate for that rifle, shooting at a hard target (Our range laws forbid hard targets like steel & bricks etc), CASA (Civil Aviation State Authority) had to suspend civilian air traffic in that area dur to the possibility of a ricochet.
They tried to portray that these weapons were all over the state a were a risk to the public my nephew who is in the AFP said there were 24 licensed in our state with the Police owning 21 of them.
Labor hold the balance of power in the upper & lower houses so can railroad this new Act through so are only going through the motions to show they followed due process there is so much more in there they are not telling us its 400+ pages of B/S, we are trying to stop it but in reality it's a foregone conclusion.

It makes a mockery of my fathers 3 years o/seas WWII service in the Pacific along with the 0000's of other Australian service men & women who went to war for our freedoms which is a shame.
They have started in also on 4x4 driving vehicles and declaring allot of our southern beaches conservation zones with no recreational fishing to occur they did it to our beach here in Capel.
Gotta win lotto so we can flee this state and go to somewhere where the FA laws are reasonable, it's just a sh*te show here now

[Bob Womack]

Folks, we are headed into political territory. Let's keep it clear of that. Thanks!

Bob