S.A. No. 15 Mk. 1 Transit Chest Markings Question

[tj214]

Just received one of Kerry Barker's outstanding No. 15 chest repros (thanks again to Brian Dick for the lead!). Kerry's very easy to work with, and the chest is super well made; my "new" 4T & associated stuff fits as expected, and the chest looks great.

Not surprising that original chest markings varied considerably over the years (decades?), and online photos of originals typically show various texts/numbers and font styles and sizes.

I've noticed that many chests display "BA xxxx" marks, where the "xxxx" 4-digit number varies. I understand this is a stores nomenclature, but cannot find a reference to what the numbers mean. One poster opined the number indicated the exact configuration of the contents, which presumably meant rifle marque, telescope marque, spotting scope, etc.

It also appears the "BA" marking was often applied on top of earlier markings, so I wonder whether this was only applied post-WW II.

Can anybody explain this marking system?

(All sorts of other stenciled marking show up in the photos and are all over the place in terms of content, size, font, marking location, etc., so this request applies specifically to the "BA" marking.)

[Alan de Enfield]

Every individual part on the rifle had a 'name' (description) and it also had a stores part number (vocabulary Number) which were the BA ( BB) numbers.

Example of one of the pages of the No4 parts list

The complete rifle also had a BB number which varied depending on the components it was assembled with

ie A No4 rifle with a 'long butt' was, BB8629, whilst the same rifle with a 'normal' butt was BB8630

[Peter Laidler]

As a general rule, the chests were the domain of the Ordnance people - or as we used to call them, 'the blanket stackers'. Whereas the contents came under the wing of the Armourers. So far as I remember, the No4T rifle only came from Ordnance with a medium butt, hence the same B1-BB xxxx number or later, a Bi/CR XXXX number. And during the 60's, the later B1-1005-99-960-XXXX type number. All thoughtfully over painted by the blanket stackers with a can of thick tar-like paint, daubed on with a thick dirty brush. Roy W will know exactly what I mean by the blanket stackers antics You'll also find the 'LOCK-UP STORES' markings and the rifle serial number too, where the rifle was kept in the chest in the armoury. This made the arms checking a bit easier and kept the rifles out of the hands of the arms storemen who were want to fiddle and play with everything

[tj214]

From Alan's and Peter's posts it sounds like the BA xxxx markings were post-WW II. Can you confirm?

Alan, can you point me towards a complete stores parts numbers listing? The only one I've been able to find online is a fairly modern Canadian list that uses NSNs, a useful standard but is not relatable to the British stores numbers without a translator. BTW, in my extremely limited experience I've not seen any "BB xxxx" stencils on these chests.

If such a list is not available, here are the numbers I've seen (or read about) on chests; surely not a complete list, and possibly some are fantasy added by civilian "restorers," but this is what I've seen in books and online photos. Do you have information to identify these specific numbers?

BA 4567
BA 5885
BA 6247
BA 6789
BA 8738 (BI BA 8738 on end paper tag)
BA 10317 (BI/BA 10317 on end paper tag)

TIA

[Bindi2]

As you state the chest is a REPRO a good one ( i take as well made)
Putting stencils on it turns it into a FAKE. It has never been in service.

[Alan de Enfield]

Alan, can you point me towards a complete stores parts numbers listing?

The Vocab system was used prior to WW2 and the numbers were also used on the SMLE rifles.

Send me a PM with your email and I'll forward the complete "Parts List" document to you

[tj214]

Of all the types of responses I expected from site members, yours is literally the one I never anticipated.

I appreciate you taking the time to state your opinion. Others have different opinions.

Yes, it's very well made. There's no chance anybody would assume or believe a chest in this good condition could be an original; paint pristine, no overpaints, zero wood damage, etc.

My chest, my decision, obviously. And, of course, I have the right to ask questions about stencils seen on originals.

[CINDERS]

Will look the part when on the range I think most ppl nowdays if they see a pristine No.15 will be of enough knowledge to understand it will be a reproduction.
I think Island Accuracy in Tassie (If they are still going) had repops for $500/Aud years ago.

[Bindi2]

Cinders
You and I would know but in 20yrs or less it will be sold as original in very good as new.
i equate this situation to a as new 1913 Lithgow that's been through 2 world wars ,Korea and several other dustups with all the right stamps etc on the timber along side a well used looks old 1913 with the same correct stamps. Which one is the real deal

[browningautorifle]

You and I would know but in 20yrs or less it will be sold as original in very good as new.

That's why I quit hoarding the old collectable stuff. Getting harder to tell apart and driving the serious collectors away.