No1 MkIII 1917 TR - What a shame!

[jss]

Just walked into local RFD's on the off chance of a handstop for my Envoy and there on the shelf was a beautiful BSA No1 MIII target rifle in what appears to be mint condition. Apparently it belonged for many years to a local high ranking officer who used it for "plinking", and it appears to have had little use. I tried various offers but the dealer then decided to get it valued by auctioneers.
It seems an awful shame to lock away a gun like this in a cupboard and not use it for what it was made!.
It has a cutoff, orginal open sights, Parker hale target sights marked Mk VII and a semi band halfway along the top forend. The lower stock just behind the centre band is flattened on the sides for a few inches toward the rear which I was told is a sign that it is military stock but other No1's I have seen do not have this. It does NOT have a crown stamped on the wrist, just BSA & Co, so I believe it is commercial.
Is this likely to be a very collectable rifle given it's condition even if it is a non-military Fulton TR?.

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[Gingercat]

Hi

Sounds very nice! What makes you say 1917 in the title, if the rifle has no crown and date on the butt socket? BSA made a lot of commercial Mk III spec rifles (without volley sights) between the wars and it is quite likely a 1920s rifle. I've recently seen a 1908 Enfield (with volley sights and cutoff) for £695 - Fultons regulated, but no Parker sight present. There's been a BSA rifle, Fulton regulated with 'new' barrel on Guntrader for months @ £495 - again minus the Parker sight.

The Parker sights are regularly making £120+ on Ebay at the moment, so would add significant value to the rifle.

[RJW NZ]

That flat area sounds very odd, like a mod made for perhaps a front rest. I have an ex NZ navy fultons and the stock is as per a stock no1 mk3, it does has the right half of the striker knob milled away though.
Joe Salter.com may still have the one he's been advertising, there's lots of pics at his site.
Very nice rifles to own, and collectible in that there's not many and they're accurate, they haven't hit their stride for value yet imho.

[barbarossa]

The flattening noted behind the barrel band is a salient feature of the post 1916 modified forestock adopted after volley sites were deleted during the transition to the Mark III* pattern SMLE rifle. This pattern of forestock, known as the 'dimpled forend' or 'perchbelly stock' among L.E. collectors, was standard until 1921 when the change was made to the straighter contour forend as was initially fitted to the Mark V rifle in 1922. It is, therefore, likely this is the original stock fitted when the rifle was manufactured by BSA in 1917.

[Beerhunter]

Is this likely to be a very collectable rifle given it's condition even if it is a non-military Fulton TR?.

Where did you get that date from? As has been said, you have described a between the wars BSA commercial.

In fact, apart from the target sight, you have pretty well, described mine (including the reworked fore-end sans volley sight) which was proofed in 1936.

Did you spot any marks? For example a Crowned BM (Birmingham Military Proof).

[jss]

Thanks for the input gentlemen.
The dealer took it to a local gunsmith to get it valued with a view to me making an offer.
He dated it but I don't know how or by what marks. I could not see any dates or crowns stamped anywhere obvious.
I have seen the one similar on guntrader but it does not look in as good condition and as you say has been there for months which seems to indicate little interest.
I have also gone through "Joe salter's" site among many others and don't remember seeing one the same. I will have another look.
There is also one similar on "Charles Stuart and Associates" site but not with the original sights still in place.
The 'perchbelly stock' could be from spares or an ealrier rifle I suppose as it's a Fulton hibrid.
So frustrating that it's now out of reach , locked in a cupboard. I could be shooting it today, or taking it apart to see what it's made of!.

Thanks again for the interest. If I get another look I'll let you know.

[Beerhunter]

The 'perchbelly stock' could be from spares or an ealrier rifle I suppose as it's a Fulton hibrid.

Nope, they they were built like it. I have seen others identical to my rifle and the rifle that you have seen.

The Birmingham Gun Trade was famous (notorious?) for using up old parts.

I'm sorry to have to say this but I think that what you saw was simply a miss-dated (by the dealer), between the wars BSA commercial that someone had put target sights on. Before all these new-fangled Swings and Metal Mickies, SMLEs were commonly used for target shooting.

[jss]

Nope, they they were built like it. I have seen others identical to my rifle and the rifle that you have seen.

The Birmingham Gun Trade was famous (notorious?) for using up old parts.

I'm sorry to have to say this but I think that what you saw was simply a miss-dated (by the dealer), between the wars BSA commercial that someone had put target sights on. Before all these new-fangled Swings and Metal Mickies, SMLEs were commonly used for target shooting.

I think your right. I've seen it twice and it feels as if it's just come out of the shop!. Mind you I'm a complete beginner at this Enfield business so no idea really. Still, I would prefer it to modern and it might be cheaper and much more interesting.