Kmow What You Are Buying

[SpikeDD]

If I were selling this rifle today and these were the pics offered ( Taken Tonight ).... What would you be buying?

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Information

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[Lee Enfield]

Personally I would stay away, based simply upon what I think I observe in the posted pictures, in no particular order:

The sear has had a stop added, so the body has worn enough to need the sear held down.

Has the locking recess been welded? what's the white material at the bottom front?

Is that GR under the crown?? never seen one that unclear...

The barrel numbering implies that it's a replacement - receiver or barrel I'm not sure.

I really don't like the white area at the bottom of the locking lugs (could it be that they are they brazed??), and was it felt marked to show bearing surfaces on the lugs?

I suspect modern number font on the rear sight, bolt body, and probably nose cap.

left body side wiped of "1953 FTR" marking perhaps?

[SpikeDD]

Those are awesome observations, Lee. I, in fact, marked the lugs to show the bearing surface, or rather, the lack of. The white areas at the base of the lugs are where the marker wouldn't reach. I will let some others have a go before I tell you how accurate you are.

[bros]

SpikeDD I think you answered your own questions based on the concentrated areas of the photos you took.

[Frederick303]

Well I would hazzard the following things as well:

1) The crown on the barrel seems to be very beaten up or cord worn.

2) It looks like somebody removed importers markings from the left side of the action body.

3) Bolt looks renumbered

That said the serial number is right for a 1917 LSA. I have seen a lot of WWI rirfles with a 1919 through 1925 replacement barrel. It would be interesting to see the date on the barrel, I expect it would be later than 1917.

The fact that the bolt seems to have been refitted, yet the barrel seems to be cord worn yet the lugs do not really bear would make me take a much more careful look at it. Seems to imply that the bolt was fittted later.........and not fitted that well so....is the rifle DP marked?

[SpikeDD]

Personally I would stay away, based simply upon what I think I observe in the posted pictures, in no particular order:

The sear has had a stop added, so the body has worn enough to need the sear held down.

Has the locking recess been welded? what's the white material at the bottom front?

Is that GR under the crown?? never seen one that unclear...

The barrel numbering implies that it's a replacement - receiver or barrel I'm not sure.

I really don't like the white area at the bottom of the locking lugs (could it be that they are they brazed??), and was it felt marked to show bearing surfaces on the lugs?

I suspect modern number font on the rear sight, bolt body, and probably nose cap.

left body side wiped of "1953 FTR" marking perhaps?

The origins of this rifle have been discussed on Gunboards so I'll give it up here as well.

The answer to the "sear stop" suggestion I copied from my post on Gunboards to save me some time.

"The sear has had a stop added, so the body has worn enough to need the sear held down."

A very logical thought, given the position of the "pin", but I would suggest if a bolt channel was that well worn enough to require a sear stop, the rifle would most certainly be condemned on that issue alone. Condemned, or perhaps, added to the ranks of D.P., which brings us to this gem of a rifle presented here. It is in fact, beyond the random bolt being shoved in and renumbered to match,( See photos of lugs showing virtually no load bearing whatsoever ) along with every other numbered item on this rifle less the barrel, the worst and most dangerous atrocity committed on this rifle. That "pin" is actually the remnants of a thin, round nosed piece of steel that used to reside in the end of the bolt channel. Once fitted, the small bolt lug must be ground down to pass over the plate. On this rifle, and 2 others I own from this source, the plate has been chiseled off, leaving the "pin". I have only seen this feature on DP rifles but not all DP rifles have this feature. The other "fix" that can be seen in pic 9 is the attempt to "tighten up" the bolt in a worn channel. Forward and above the "pin", you can see the metal on the edge of the bolt channel has been smashed with a chisel to push the steel up a bit and then has been filed down to just let the bolt pass. Either that, or there was a huge swing and a miss while chiseling out the steel plate. Either way tops my list of ******baggery at it's finest.

"Has the locking recess been welded? what's the white material at the bottom front?"

That is the remnants of the "plate"

"Is that GR under the crown?? never seen one that unclear..."

Yes, That is GR and probably the only legitimate feature on the whole rifle.

"The barrel numbering implies that it's a replacement - receiver or barrel I'm not sure."

The barrel is original, LSA, but the receiver has been scrubbed so extensively to remove the DP markings that the number had to be re-stamped.

"I really don't like the white area at the bottom of the locking lugs (could it be that they are they brazed??), and was it felt marked to show bearing surfaces on the lugs?"

I felted the lugs to show bearing wear. The white is just where the felt didn't reach.

"I suspect modern number font on the rear sight, bolt body, and probably nose cap."

Correct on all accounts.

"left body side wiped of "1953 FTR" marking perhaps?"

Excellent guess but this area was scrubbed of the Century Arms import mark.

[SpikeDD]

Well I would hazzard the following things as well:

1) The crown on the barrel seems to be very beaten up or cord worn.

2) It looks like somebody removed importers markings from the left side of the action body.

3) Bolt looks renumbered

That said the serial number is right for a 1917 LSA. I have seen a lot of WWI rirfles with a 1919 through 1925 replacement barrel. It would be interesting to see the date on the barrel, I expect it would be later than 1917.

The fact that the bolt seems to have been refitted, yet the barrel seems to be cord worn yet the lugs do not really bear would make me take a much more careful look at it. Seems to imply that the bolt was fittted later.........and not fitted that well so....is the rifle DP marked?

Well though out, Frederick. LSA didn't number their barrels but this one is original to the receiver. It is in fact the only original part left on this rifle. The receiver has been scrubbed so deeply to remove the DP markings that the number had to be re-stamped. The barrel was scrubbed as well and is why the numbers are so shallow. See my response to Lee Enfield.