No.8 failure to fire

[Peter Laidler]

The BIG problem with the No8 was down to the TA and Cadet Forces DS/instructors. They would insist on perpetuating the old urban myth that the .22" waxed ammo meant that the rifle didn't need cleaning, would clean itself, would clean your shoes and boots if you left them neatly in the corridor, make the bed, sweep the floor and.......... You get my drift here chaps. All a load of old bollo......, crap of course. While the barrel wouldn't rust as such or corrode the rifle still needed to be cleaned of all the gunge around the breech and the bore rodded through every week or so AND examined for bulges.

While my son was in the CCF at his school and for many, many years afterwards me and the TA Permanent Staff WO from the training team used to spend a day going around the CCF's and ACF's (and some of the small TA's) by arrangement and sorting them out, CHS, and test the FPP occasionally. Once you're on top of them all they were trouble free. The only trouble was guess what.............? A lot of the DS used to know more about the maintenance and inner workings of the trigger mechanism than me and 'Mac' McGxxxxxxxy. Happy days!

[Lee Enfield]

The BIG problem with the No8 was down to the TA and Cadet Forces DS/instructors. They would insist on perpetuating the old urban myth that the .22" waxed ammo meant that the rifle didn't need cleaning, would clean itself, would clean your shoes and boots if you left them neatly in the corridor, make the bed, sweep the floor and.......... You get my drift here chaps. All a load of old bollo......, crap of course. While the barrel wouldn't rust as such or corrode the rifle still needed to be cleaned of all the gunge around the breech and the bore rodded through every week or so AND examined for bulges.

While my son was in the CCF at his school and for many, many years afterwards me and the TA Permanent Staff WO from the training team used to spend a day going around the CCF's and ACF's (and some of the small TA's) by arrangement and sorting them out, CHS, and test the FPP occasionally. Once you're on top of them all they were trouble free. The only trouble was guess what.............? A lot of the DS used to know more about the maintenance and inner workings of the trigger mechanism than me and 'Mac' McGxxxxxxxy. Happy days!

...much like the local cadet corps who are (were anyway, don't know that they have firearms anymore) taught to cock and snap the C.No7 repeatedly onto an empty chamber to demonstrate that they are empty... It took a lot of cringing, begging, cajoling and crying to convince the staff instructors to modify their drill...

In the "civilian world" where people have to repair their own (or borrowed) property, the first thing anyone who deals with rimfire is taught in my experience is how potentially damaging an inertial firing pin is to a rimfire chamber...

Foolishly perhaps, I had previously wondered how anything could mechanically go wrong with a C.No7 which would force the unit to send the rifle back for cannibalization and conversion to deactivated status...

[Sentryduty]

much like the local cadet corps who are (were anyway, don't know that they have firearms anymore) taught to cock and snap the C.No7 repeatedly onto an empty chamber to demonstrate that they are empty

That was still the drill when I was young cadet, nearly 20 years since I fired a C.No7 now that I think of it.

The Daisy 853C air-rifle became the local Corp level trainer and competition gun, I purchased one a few years ago for nostalgia and basement shooting, as I managed to make it to provincial level finals once or twice as a youth. However my scores of 94-96 were well bested by a number of 98-100 performers. Wish I had the skill and patience I have now with the eyesight I had then.

The C.No7 was kept for summer course/camp ranges and the C7A1 was fired during certain Army Cadet Leader Instructor courses, I wonder if that has been retained or if it has been considered too aggressive for cadets.

[mrclark303]

I have to say though, I have only rarely had an issue with CCI mini mags, it seems to be very consistent stuff.

A good quality ammunition is the bedrock of accuracy and reliable function in any firearm, but .22LR based firearms seem to suffer the most.

[LondonEnfield]

...much like the local cadet corps who are (were anyway, don't know that they have firearms anymore) taught to cock and snap the C.No7 repeatedly onto an empty chamber to demonstrate that they are empty... It took a lot of cringing, begging, cajoling and crying to convince the staff instructors to modify their drill...

In the "civilian world" where people have to repair their own (or borrowed) property, the first thing anyone who deals with rimfire is taught in my experience is how potentially damaging an inertial firing pin is to a rimfire chamber...

Believe it or not, snapping an empty chamber is still part of the UK unload drill for the No.8. That said, the firing pin protrusion isn't long enough to peen the chamber, thankfully.

Also, if you have a Chiappa M1, don't dry fire the thing. Ever. My, er, friend, did that once. Then my, er, friend, discovered the butter-soft chamber face had been peened over just enough to stop the rifle from cycling. Ended up swapping the damn thing for 100rds of 303 just to get rid of it.

[mrclark303]

Also, if you have a Chiappa M1, don't dry fire the thing. Ever. My, er, friend, did that once. Then my, er, friend, discovered the butter-soft chamber face had been peened over just enough to stop the rifle from cycling. Ended up swapping the damn thing for 100rds of 303 just to get rid of it.

Sounds like your "friend" learnt that one the hard way, we have all been there (professional Armourers aside!), shame about the Chiappa M1, it certainly looked the part, even down to original M1 stocks fitting, just a shame the Italians make them out of tin foil!!

[30Three]

When I first got my No2 mkIV* .22 it would not extract the empty cases. After inspecting it, I found that the rim of the chamber had been peened by the firing pin; causing the case to jam on extraction. Obviously someone had been dry firing it. Fortunately the firing pin was still intact. Some careful tidying up of the chamber rim and it works a treat. Luckily the No8's bolt heads have a shoulder that prevents this problem.

[Patrick Chadwick]

Took the No.8 out and about one in every ten shots didn't fire. Some ammo was much worse (3 in 4). I assume that there are some tougher rims on some ammo than others but seems that something is amiss anyway. Obviously the bolt assembly is the first place to look, but does anyone have a similar experience, and what was the remedy?

Well Newcastle, while the others are happily reminiscing about old times in the virtual bar, perhaps we could get back to your problem.
The strikers on 22s have very limited travel, compared with a centerfire rifle. Anything that limits or slows the travel will contribute to your problem. Tenths of a millimeter matter. I have had this effect very recently, and suggest the following sequence of operations:

1) Crud build-up in the bolt-face recess. This effectively holds the cartridge base a wee bit forwards of the bolt-face, thus reducing the effective travel. Clean the recess thoroughly.

2) Crud build-up in the extractor recess. Over the years, dirt gets rammed in by the extractor when the bolt is closed, until the the extractor fails to snap over the rim properly. Although you will normally notice this when extraction becomes unreliable, already at a slightly lower level the plugged recess will prevent the bolt from closing up as tight as it could - thus effectively reducing the travel.

3) Crud build-up within the bolt body, often semi-fossilized grease that has been there since the rifle was last serviced or put into store (decades ago?), which prevents the striker from going forwards as far as it should. You will need to dismantle, clean and reassemble the bolt. Here you will have to refer to the expertise of Peter Laidler on this forum - it's all in there somewhere!

4) The same crud build-up within the bolt body can slow the striker so much that the impact on the cartridge rim is insufficient to cause ignition. The effect is the same as a weak spring. But much more likely.

You notice that I do not mention striker length. That is because it is very unlikely that this is the cause, unless the rifle has been Bubba-ed. If so, then you will have to ask Peter for advice, as spare strikers for a No. 8 must by now be unobtainium.

Check out 1) to 4). If the trouble persists, simply pick the ammo that works.

BTW. My No.8 doesn't like any kind of hotted-up ammo, like Stinger, Swartklip etc. Some of this "Xtra" stuff won't even chamber properly unless I scrape off the wax. It shoots best with RWS competition ammo - a rifle with expensive tastes! But with the good stuff, it reaches bench-rest accuracy (as already published on the Range Reports forum). A No.8 is potentially so extraordinarily good, that you should just not waste any time or money on unreliable ammo.

[newcastle]

Great info ( and memories) from all. Personally I got my marksman badge In the cadets at Hexham base in the early 1980's with No.2 rifles.

[newcastle]

Returning to this thread. After carrying out all the cleaning is could on the bolt went to the range yesterday . First two shots, failure to fire. Next 25 or so no problems and then roughly one in every eight shots was an F2F. All types of ammo. I have pictures of the bases of fired cartridge cases from the #8 and my No. 2, which I have to upload. I was wondering if the #8 was hitting the case too far from the rim. Have to post and compare. Otherwise I guess I might be in the market for new spring or trying to alter firing pin protrusion.