Any red flags on this 1903?

[Rick the Librarian]

WJS was an unknown inspector at Springfield in the 1918-1921 period. Supposedly, he also helped out at Rock Island for a limited period.

I agree about the comment that at least the stock was correct to the ship (A Brooklyn-class light cruiser which had a distinguished career in the Pacific from Pearl Harbor-on).

I would guess the stock (or rifle) came from the U.S. Navy detachment - the Marines could be moved from station to station and carried their rifles with them - thus, no need to mark the stocks.

I have seen several rifles with POD stocks (Philippine Ordnance Depot), but I never know if the whole rifle went through there or not.

[pickax]

I was hoping you would weigh in Rick. I thought you would be able to date the WJS stamp. I of course was wrong about the rear sight, as Fred pointed out.
Hope the OP bought it and will come back with more pictures!

[Rick the Librarian]

It is a nice looking rifle - depending on the price, I certainly wouldn't have let it pass by!

[RCS]

Here are some examples of a USMC shovel cover identified as USMC and with the ship name. I would think that the USMC detachment on large warships did not always take their rifles with them but that the USMC weapons were stored on the ship and could have been marked with the ship's name. Marines were issued these weapons.Attachment 74207Attachment 74208

[cplstevennorton]

I have a little info here I can add that may help.

I have been researching the Marine Documents at the Archives, and everything I read in there makes me believe the markings on the stocks were applied by someone other than the Marines.

I think the biggest clouding of these Navy/USMC markings is because of two reasons.

On the leadup to WWII, the Marines were in desperate need for 1903 stocks. The Marines were basically begging everyone for anything they could spare, even broken ones they thought they could fix. So this would have introduced a lot of non USMC Cartouches into the Marines, especially if they weren't sanded off.

Secondly in 1942, the Marines were very short on rifles. The Navy agreed to give them a huge amount of used 1903's. They gave them so many, it almost doubled their 1903 supply. Many of these rifles were in poor condition and Marines documents say they needed to be rebuilt. So that might account for Marine rebuild traits on a Navy rifle.

Once early 1943 came along and the Marines had finally caught up with the supply of M1 rifles, you start to see 1903 rifles head back to the Navy. Which means some of these 1903's might have started WWII in the Navy, spent some time in the Marines, and then went back to the Navy even before the war was over. So it becomes sort of complicated when you follow that trail.

On the OPS 1.20 rifle, it is probably unlikely it was a Marine rifle. At least it wasn't one that started life in the Marine Corps. If you follow the shipment of 1903 rifles into the Marines, with that late of serial, the chances of it being Marine in origin are low. The Marines did swap some barreled actions for a couple years in the mid 20's with the Army. Then they acquired all those 1903 rifles from the Navy in 1942. But that would be about the only way this late of a serial could have made it into the Marines.

If that stock is original to that rifle, I personally think it is much more likely it is Navy in origin than a Marine rifle.

Regardless though it's a beautiful rifle, and I think many of us would be happy to have it in our collection. I hope this helps some in your search.

[RCS]

Back in 2007, a friend found a SA Model 1903 s/n 825055 with a SA 3-18 barrel, the stock was stamped TENN. I had posted this information on Jouster and Jim Tarleton then post some additional data
on USMC rifles: This rifle had been purchased from the CMP and the TENN stock came with this rifle

825081 031631 USMC Haiti
825111 112138 USMC San Diego (survey)
825131 032729 USMC San Diego
825148 051629 Ft Humphreys
825235 051029 Corps of Cadets USMA

There are a lot of serial numbers in this group indicating USMC and the naval ships

[RCS]

I would think that the stocks were marked with the ships name or hull number by the navy in the "wood shop". All kinds of variations: I found a Single bolt Rock Island stock with AT over 21 later found out it was the USS Bagaluce. The USS MISS stocks can have a rack number and a date too. The USS WEST POINT was handstamped with single letters while the TENN stamped stocks appear to be stamped above the magazine on the side of the stock. All this makes collecting interesting

[Fred G.]

Just looking at the photo's of the rifle here, without even holding it in my hands, I sense that it's a wonderfully cared for and preserved 03. It has slipped through the cracks and has survived unblemished and unmolested from heavy use or abuse. Really collectable example. Nice condition. I'd buy it.

[cplstevennorton]

You are right that there are Marine rifles that sometimes will show up with these markings. I actually have a documented Marine 1903 with a stock marking like one of the rifle's pictured above. But just knowing the rifles history, I just highly doubt it was applied by the Marines.

It's a long story and I don't want to take over the Op's thread. But the cliff note version is I have thousands of documents now from the archives that detail the Marine 1903's. And even though I can detail about every known Marine trait and even some traits that aren't known yet, I just can't find any mention of them doing this to their stocks. In fact every mention of Marine stocks just leads me to beleive this wouldn't have been done.

But we are usually pulling hundreds of Marine Documents every week from different archive locations, so maybe I will prove myself wrong someday and I will find it. I will be the first to admit I've proved myself wrong many times before.

[Rick the Librarian]

We've also had discussion on the meaning of the numbers like AT/21 being U.S. Navy ship numbers. I admit I am not convinced. Some of the numbers add up but most do not - either having non-existent ship numbers or numbers of ships not in service at the likely service period of the M1903.