I like the SA80

[enfield303t]

Personally think Bruce_in_OZ has won the "best comment" award.

[Flying10uk]

Does anyone remember the AWAC conversion of the Nimrod that was attempted as a replacement for the ageing Avro Shackletons in the 1980s? The programme seemed to go on for ever, with no end in sight, and the aircraft never did enter service. The whole episode would have been quite amusing if it hadn't cost the U.K. tax payer millions and millions of pounds. In the end the programme was scrapped and U.S. aircraft were purchased.

[mrclark303]

Oh, that disater was a procurement at its absolute worst F10..

A great example of pointless duplication of effort and horrendous waste of money.

However, the Government was largely to blame there, first the programme should never have been embarked upon (AWACS bought off the shelf).

Second, the MOD kept changing the specification, this resulted in the avionics being in a constant state of modification, that resulted in costs spiralling out of control until the plug was eventually pulled.

I have some pics somewhere of some of the prototype AEW Nimrods on the dump at Abingdon.

Let's not even discuss the Nimrod MR4A!

[skiprat]

During trade training (1985) we were the first Armourers course to get our hands on the SA80 ( as part of the basic course, not as a specialist equipment course) we were told many ( many) stories about the SA80 to give us some background of the weapon, we were shown the prototypes and the chopped AR180s .....

Even as a very young new Armourer there was a lot of propaganda some real some made up. To " big up" the new weapon system ( it was not just the rifle "Small arms of the 80s" ....SA80 did include the 51mm mortar, 94mm anti tank and the 94mm trainer.....)

After all these years..... I picked up the book " the last Enfield" and I can not recommended it enough. Some of the rubbish we were told was true , and some of the facts we were told were pure bull....

The idea of the SA80 as it started out is somewhat different to what we got... They did not intend to build a bullpup AR180 but it's what we ended up with....

Read " The last Enfield" it will save reading the rest of this thread! ( I have no personal interest in the sale of this book��)

[mrclark303]

During trade training (1985) we were the first Armourers course to get our hands on the SA80 ( as part of the basic course, not as a specialist equipment course) we were told many ( many) stories about the SA80 to give us some background of the weapon, we were shown the prototypes and the chopped AR180s .....

Even as a very young new Armourer there was a lot of propaganda some real some made up. To " big up" the new weapon system ( it was not just the rifle "Small arms of the 80s" ....SA80 did include the 51mm mortar, 94mm anti tank and the 94mm trainer.....)

After all these years..... I picked up the book " the last Enfield" and I can not recommended it enough. Some of the rubbish we were told was true , and some of the facts we were told were pure bull....

The idea of the SA80 as it started out is somewhat different to what we got... They did not intend to build a bullpup AR180 but it's what we ended up with....

Read " The last Enfield" it will save reading the rest of this thread! ( I have no personal interest in the sale of this book��)

Couldn't agree enough, it's a very interesting and enlightening read.

[Peter Laidler]

Another breath of fresh air from Skippy..............

[Brit plumber]

Let's not even discuss the Nimrod MR4A!

The problem here was the governments timing. They cancelled the contract just as all the problems had been fixed. The MR4 had brand new wings which were built to fine tolerances with 21st century engineering. The old fuselages were built with 1950 technology using wooden jigs and then we wonder why things wouldn't fit.

So we buy ex USAF Boeing tankers (in mothball) and turn them into Rivet Joint. An aircraft that has cost more than Nimrod and has air worthiness issues with the MAA because of the frames dubious history. I've only seen the one flying and I'm only 12 miles from Waddo.

[mrclark303]

The problem here was the governments timing. They cancelled the contract just as all the problems had been fixed. The MR4 had brand new wings which were built to fine tolerances with 21st century engineering. The old fuselages were built with 1950 technology using wooden jigs and then we wonder why things wouldn't fit.

So we buy ex USAF Boeing tankers (in mothball) and turn them into Rivet Joint. An aircraft that has cost more than Nimrod and has air worthiness issues with the MAA because of the frames dubious history. I've only seen the one flying and I'm only 12 miles from Waddo.

There's so much to say about MR4 programme we could start a whole new forum never mind a thread...!

I was given a rare insider insight into​ the MR4 by one of the BAe Systems engineering staff (nothing commercially sensitive) involved in that programme.

Things started badly right off the bat (common sense thrown out with the rubbish) it was suggested at an early stage that some of the original engineering staff involved with Nimrod be consulted on the viability of the rebuild.

Senior management refused outright, so the whole programme got off on a very wrong foot... I thought that was a telling mistake ...

As the difficulties mounted, the fixed price contract could only be made to work by reducing the numbers, going from 21 to 16 to 12 and eventually only 9 ...

Had these aircraft actually been delivered I think maintaining such a small fleet of 9 aircraft as time went by, would have got progressively more difficult and expensive.

Still, a dreadful sight seeing the MR4's being scrapped at Woodford.

[Flying10uk]

The 3x Joint Rivet aircraft that the U.K. are buying are only a replacement for the 3x R1 variant of the Nimrod, I believe. We are actually going to buy the P8 Poseidon (hopefully) to replace the Nimrod MRA4 variant soon.

[Gil Boyd]

so.........................how many SA80's do they carry. Oops sorry didn't mean to go off the topic
Have a good weekend