Charlton Machinegun

[henry r]

I cannot express how awesome that is.

[browningautorifle]

It is a fully working, select-fire gun and I will video the test firing.

And we're waiting to see...

[henry r]

Now I'm imagining a electrolux charlton/Lithgow no6 hybrid. With ww1 smle trench mags of course.

[Woodsy]

To be really honest Rod, when you mentioned some while back on the forum - or via Bill M - that you were going to build a Charlton I really didn't expect you to finally do it. So it's good to see the skills that went into it. As a matter of interest, which Charlton did you base/copy it from as there were several small variations, albeit sometimes small and minor, sometimes a bit more obvious. My boss at the big Northern District Ord Depot mentioned that he had fired their example for a NZTV semi documentary about NZ war output but it struggled a bit and it'd only reliably feed and fire with two particular Bren mags. I think that ones now at Waiouru but someone told me recently that that one went to the museum where Charlton hailed from.

GREAT to see and a credit

Peter, what you see is the amalagamated remains (plus the small parts previously mentioned) of two standard production Charltons fitted to a correct period MLE barrelled action that I machined to original specs. The main working parts were from gun number 1917 and that is now the number of mine. The magazines were never Bren mags (although the prototype mag was modified from one). The Charlton mags were made in Australia by a Bren mag manufacturer (Electrolux?) on a unique set of tooling, and they will not fit a Bren gun. These magazines (which are probably rarer than the guns) have no markings on them. As delivered from Australia, the magazines did not fit the Charltons and the guns were originally shipped with 10 rd rifle mags. The new magazines had to have minor alterations before they would fit properly and then they were sent out to be retrofitted to the guns. My magazine is one of these altered original mags.

It appears that while the majority of Charltons were destroyed in fire at the end of WW2, at least two were still at Burnham Camp and these were gas cut at the gas port and the middle of the body. The centre portions were dumped and the front parts were welded to the back parts to make toy guns (presumably for the children of the armourers). I obtained one of these 'toys' about 30 years ago, a second about 10 years ago (found in the garden shed of the Canterbury Museum curator), and a 'dumped' centre portion was obtained by me in 2015. The original bolt and magazine were purchased at auctions in the last 10 years. I still have one 'toy' as found, and all the major parts were from the Christchurch area which lends some credence to Burnham being the source.

There were many minor variations in the guns during their production because they were all completely hand-fitted. The only significant variation is that early production used MLE rear sights and the later ones (like mine) used windage adjustable SMLE rear sights.

[tiriaq]

Congratulations on completing your gun. Close to 40 years ago, I obtained a copy of the Charlton patent from the NZ Ministry of Justice. Several years ago, I obtained copies of three large sheets of dimensioned drawings. All dimensions in common fractions, not decimals. Have been working on a repro off and on, ever since. Will not be selective of course. Best I can hope for is semi only if I am lucky, or straight pull bolt action by default. There are certainly a lot of parts to be scratch built.

[henry r]

Does the 2nd "toy" mean that at some stage in the future there may be another original charlton resurrected?

[Woodsy]

Does the 2nd "toy" mean that at some stage in the future there may be another original charlton resurrected?

Definitely not! I doubt that there are any original parts left for me to find in NZ, and I doubt that I will be around in another 30 years that it took to gather up the last lot of parts! The 'toy' photographed is the one that was found in the garden shed and subsequently given to me by the Police.
Attachment 84714

[Woodsy]

Congratulations on completing your gun. Close to 40 years ago, I obtained a copy of the Charlton patent from the NZ Ministry of Justice. Several years ago, I obtained copies of three large sheets of dimensioned drawings. All dimensions in common fractions, not decimals. Have been working on a repro off and on, ever since. Will not be selective of course. Best I can hope for is semi only if I am lucky, or straight pull bolt action by default. There are certainly a lot of parts to be scratch built.

You still have a big job ahead! Take note of my comments earlier regarding the pistol grip, and compare the drawings to my photo of the original production style. Copies of the drawings have been circulating in NZ for many years, and consequently a few incorrect replicas have been made as a result.

[Peter Laidler]

That's answered the Q told to me by WO2 Annandale about the defective magazines then. It had always puzzled me about why it would only work with two mags - and then spasmodically at that! Great job. The Charlton could be like the new-made EType jags. If someone made it once, they can make it again - especially NZers who seem to have a particular bent for self-help

[tiriaq]

You still have a big job ahead! Take note of my comments earlier regarding the pistol grip, and compare the drawings to my photo of the original production style. Copies of the drawings have been circulating in NZ for many years, and consequently a few incorrect replicas have been made as a result.

You aren't kidding. Lots of parts to make. So far, I have altered the receiver, made the gas and recoil spring systems, the muzzle unit (used a salvaged P'14 sight), the receiver extension. Cam plate is installed, and tracks in the groove in the receiver extension. Next will be making the cam block on the bolt, and fitting it to the cam plate. I'll then know if the thing has a chance of operating, at least manually.
My grip looks very much like yours.