M1 Carbine Stock Question

[painter777]

Was worth wishing.
What barrel and is it dated?
Is the front sight marked N? Does it have a number on the outside?

[W5USMC]

Can see it has a S'G' Trigger.

Or maybe an IP trigger, need to check that marking.

[painter777]

Or maybe an IP trigger, need to check that marking.

Yea, your right Wayne. To be honest I could barely see the notch.
And I answered while also watching the race.
With that serial number I was hoping to see IP under that sight.

Thx

[jbm]

Here is a photo of the barrel marking, it has the flaming bomb and is Underwood 9-43 the front sight looks to have a Z on it. There are no other markings on the front sight that I can see.

[USGI]

jbm, The Z is really a crosswise N for Niedner Rifle Co. - Bob

[USGI]

Are you sure it says Saginaw S'G' under Rear Sight?
It's in a Split serial number block where some where marked Irwin Pedersen and some Saginaw S' G'
See Table G: The U.S. Caliber .30 Carbines - Serial Numbers

Charlie and Wayne,

My 1.89M S'G' is in that block also. Before when the subject of those carbines came up, the understanding I got from the discussion was that the Saginaw GR receiver marking could also be SG, S'G', or S.G. - is that right? The reason I'm asking is that I was told by the seller (before seeing the gun) about the marking. He told me it was just SG and nothing else. Were any of them marked only with the letters SG? I've always thought that mine is S'G' lightly struck.

Here's a couple pictures. What do you guys think?

Thanks! - Bob

[painter777]

Bob,
Looks like a light ' after the G'
Very much like the 1,823 I have. The one I learned after the fact a young nephew with OCD had traced over the cannons with a ball point pen that had the cap on it after I left the room for a few minutes to answer the door. I had been showing him details about it using the pen as a pointer. It made me sick to my stomach but no way I could get mad about it.
Link:https://www.milsurps.com/showthread.php?t=39471

I have 2 others in the 3,2 to 3,5 mil range lightly struck in the same way. I believe the 3,5 has the Sq shoulder.
You'd have the Receiver Type B, variation 1 (rounded shoulder with the locator hole in it). Used early in the first and 2nd serial number blocks. So it's a S'G' made receiver. I'd imagine Doerfner had those stamps working double time and likely getting worn out while under pressure to produce.

Seems I recall you had a 3,2 which probably has the rounded ear/shoulder still. Want to say it was a 8-43 Underwood barrel.

Like, jbm with his 1,76 and 9-43 Underwood barrel. My 1,823 S'G' with 8-43 Underwood barrel. Bob's S'G' 3,2 with 8-43 Underwood barrel and S'G' with I believe a 7 or 8 -43 Underwood barrel.
jbm, Check your shoulder detail on the rear side of your receiver... See pictures in link.

It just shows the scramble S'G' was in picking up the pieces after the shutdown of IP on April 1st 1943. A pile of parts seeing what was useable. Barrel dates seem to indicate both the 1st nd 2nd serial number blocks being worked on at the same time at some period. With S'G' using IP serial numbers that hadn't yet been stamped on IP receivers.
Seems the only way to roughly date a IP or S'G' would be by barrel date if it's the original barrel and IF it's a dated barrel.
IP, SG and S'G' are hard

This Link IMO best explains the IP back ground here on Milsurps:
https://www.milsurps.com/showthread.php?t=29367

Edit to Add:
When S'G' took over the IP plant they used IP marked and serial numbered receivers before they even started to make their own receivers. When they did they started using the IP serial numbers that were not used because of it having been used on a bad receiver. They started to appear in the June 1943 time frame and when S'G' had used all of the IP numbers they then picked up in the serial number blocks where IP had left off.

[jbm]

I pulled it back apart and took a couple more pictures. Could this be a Irwin Pedersen serial number with a Saginaw stamp? I'm really confused about this one.Here are some pictures of the receiver, trigger marking and magazine.

[painter777]

No IP were accepted. Their contract was terminated by Ordnance. Saginaw Steering Gear of Saginaw, MI a Div of General Motors was already building Carbines, marking S.G.
They were awarded and took over the IP contract on April 1 1943 in Grand Rapids, Mi. Becoming known as Saginaw Grand Rapids, marking S'G' and took over any useable parts and the Serial numbers that had been assigned to IP. Your Serial number was originally assigned for IP and a very early one at that, but your Receiver was made later on by S'G' after the take over, who used the old IP numbers. The Squared off ear came after the rounded ear. That explains why you have the later 9-43 barrel. It gets really confusing, just know you have a S'G' made in Grand Rapids, Mi. About 1 hour from me.
Your Sear is correct for your S'G'. Rear Adj sight is H in the shield made by Hemphill, which was likely a field upgrade like the Underwood hammer. Both considered upgrades, could have been done in the field or camp depot. That hammer has less trigger pull than the earlier ones. Your IU magazine is GI issue, made by International Silver for Underwood.

IP 1st serial number started with 1,762,520 but most were made out of order.

Curious if you seen the makers letters under your Hand Guard?

Having fun yet?

[W5USMC]

With jbm's serial# I was really expecting to see a "round" ear on that receiver. All I know is the whole IP/S'G' manufacturing saga makes my head spin!

I do think Bob's is a lightly stamped S'G'.

Here are some pictures of the receiver, trigger marking and magazine.

jbm that is a picture of the sear marking not the trigger.