Optics for AK w/o sope rail

[dbarn]

I have an Arsenal 105 AK74 w/o the scope rail and due to aging eyes am looking for optical solutions. Specifically am trying to decide between the Ultimak/red dot option and the Larue AK Irondot sight which takes the place of the rear sight. Both will allow a co-witness of the front iron sight. Have heard both positive and negative regarding these sight systems. The Larue is said to have latteral movement in some AKs, while the heat is said to distort the sight picture using the Ultimak/red dot. The Aimpoint red dot is a little out of my price range. Regarding the red dot size, which is better-3mm or 5mm size? I shoot clay targets at 50 to 100 yds and do not want the dot so large it blots out the targets. I realize the AK is not an accuracy queen, but when you cannot see your sights, most anything would seem better. Thanks for your comments.

Information

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[RyJones]

The LaRue irondot has been backordered for almost a year - the only place to find them right now is on the used market. I hear they're spinning up production on the new mounts, but I don't know any dates for that.

I use the UltiMAK + Aimpoint combo myself; very happy with it. Heat isn't an issue for me. You might consider the Micro with the 4MOA dot; at 100 yards it will be ~4 inches, at 50 yards ~2 inches. It covers a clay nicely.

A Comp C3 has a 2MOA dot, which would be half this size; personally, I like the Micro better. Your call.

[dbarn]

I spoke with Larue and they will be gearing up for production in Jan-Feb. It will be a tough decision between this and the Ultimak/red dot sight combo.

With the Irondot from Larue, will be looking at around $300. With the Ultimak at $100 and an Aimpoint at $500, looking at twice the price. I do like the fact that there are more options with the Ultimak. Is there a good alternative red dot scope that cost less and has the smaller 3mm dot size? Preferably something not made in China? Also would be looking to keep weight and size down but would still want co-witness of sights. Maybe I want my cake and eat it too.

[dbarn]

Have decided that I just do not like the looks of an optic. They seem to look out of place on an AK. The Larue would possibly be the exeption. If mine had the rail mount on the side I may feel differently, but do not like the scope/red dot being so high in the air. There seem to be negatives no matter what option you choose. I have decided to keep it close to it's original configuration by adding a front night sight and simply widening the rear sight notch.

[Stevo]

An Ultimak with a Micro or other low-sitting red dot soes not sit "high in the air". In fact you can co-witness with that setup.

Any optic mounted on an AK side rail would sit higher than that combo.

[dbarn]

I have not completely ruled that out, and may have to save my dollars, but am having a hard time justifying the price for a Aimpoint red dot scope. Their micro version may be the answer, however that combination would be more than I paid for the rifle. Another concern is the 5.45 ammo used is corrosive. If not cleaned by the end of the day rust begins to form. I like the ease/option of removing the handguard for cleaning.

[Stevo]

I have not completely ruled that out, and may have to save my dollars, but am having a hard time justifying the price for a Aimpoint red dot scope. Their micro version may be the answer, however that combination would be more than I paid for the rifle. Another concern is the 5.45 ammo used is corrosive. If not cleaned by the end of the day rust begins to form. I like the ease/option of removing the handguard for cleaning.

A Bushnell TRS-25 is the same size as a Micro and I bought one for $180 Canadian last fall. I've had good results with it on my VZ. A good optic like an Aimpoint is a solid, smart investment if you have the cash.

Just leave the gas tube in place and pour boiling water through the whole works. It will take care of the residue and will dry quickly, then clean as normal. I shot with a guy in TN in '08 who had a 5.45 SBR and hadn't cleaned it in over 5k of corrosive. I jumped at the chance to clean it and it had no rust whatsoever.

[dbarn]

Thanks for the very useful information. One thing for sure, even with co-witness of sights I can't see them. the widening of the notch and front night sight will hopefully take care of that problem. I will take a look at the Bushnell, especially since it's the same size. Some of the larger red dots just looked out of place on an AK, but I readily admit I'm not into tacticool.

[Stevo]

You're very welcome.

Doesn't matter how it looks, it matters how it works.

This is my full size Aimpoint on my VZ and it worked very well. A higher sight will allow you to keep your head up more if you're doing any "action" shooting. I've got a lower rail and ring for it now.

[mac1911]

Have you considered installing a side rail your self? I installed a screw on side rail from http://tantal.kalashnikov.guns.ru/bstmounts.html It was not to hard with the directions supplied. My norinco reciever was very hard, but after adjusting the press to the proper speed and the right bit and oil....no problem.
I then bought a side mount with picitanny rail to mount optics of my choice.
I am know looking at the cobra russian red dot as the scope is just to high and not good for me.