Enfield No4(T) "Trials Rifle" scope brackets

[KARLOS]

Here's more pics that I've asked Badger to put in this thread for me ...

[jmoore]

Any bracket pics, Karlos? Even Long Branch brackets don't get many close up studies...there's always something to be learned.

It looks like your 1931/ '33 has a six clicks per rotation elevating screw in the rear sight, yes?

Front pad looks correct Enfield.

Have you had the butt off to check for numbers forward of the join? If the leather washer's still in place, don't bother, just curious.

Thanks for jumping through the hoops!

[Peter Laidler]

Just as a matter of interest for you trials and other very early No4 owners, that the SBN XXX (there were a few different numbers) code under the bolt handle indicates the steel mix code as in Steel Batch Number (the SBN).

There, another little bit of useless Lee Enfield knowledge for you

[KARLOS]

As information on Trials T rifles is a little scarce, it took a while to find this out , however please correct me if i am wrong . Some ( most ? ) trials rifles under went an improvement program. These rifles will have the original date of manufacture over-stamped 1933. At least 3 things have been changed. firstly the bolt was changed for one of a higher grade of steel and as Peter has stated it has a steel batch number . ( Were there different batches ?) Second the rear sight elevation screw was changed from 4 to 6 clicks per turn and then the cocking piece was changed from a side locking cross screw to the standard rear locking screw. I am not aware of any other changes. A couple of years ago i managed to examine a trials rifle a 1931, date not over-stamped , side locking screw on cocking piece and 4 click rear sight screw, no SBN number on the bolt, which had matcing number and Enfield markings, it looked completely original to me. unfortunately original cut off and for-end were gone. Can any one explain the SBN on the bolt, as the bolt/locking design is virtually the same as a No1, the metallurgy should have been sorted out years earlier.
As for my rifle,will remove butt and check for number , and take a few more pics of mount, will post asap but am on mobile broadband and my upload speed is about 30 mins per pic and this is really testing my patience.

[Surpmil]

As information on Trials T rifles is a little scarce, it took a while to find this out , however please correct me if i am wrong . Some ( most ? ) trials rifles under went an improvement program. These rifles will have the original date of manufacture over-stamped 1933. At least 3 things have been changed. firstly the bolt was changed for one of a higher grade of steel and as Peter has stated it has a steel batch number . ( Were there different batches ?) Second the rear sight elevation screw was changed from 4 to 6 clicks per turn and then the cocking piece was changed from a side locking cross screw to the standard rear locking screw. I am not aware of any other changes. A couple of years ago i managed to examine a trials rifle a 1931, date not over-stamped , side locking screw on cocking piece and 4 click rear sight screw, no SBN number on the bolt, which had matcing number and Enfield markings, it looked completely original to me. unfortunately original cut off and for-end were gone. Can any one explain the SBN on the bolt, as the bolt/locking design is virtually the same as a No1, the metallurgy should have been sorted out years earlier.
As for my rifle,will remove butt and check for number , and take a few more pics of mount, will post asap but am on mobile broadband and my upload speed is about 30 mins per pic and this is really testing my patience.

Your bolt is original I believe. My 1933 No.(T) had exactly the same marking under the bolt handle, and I am quite certain the bolt was original.

The MkI cocking pieces that have a cross screw are of the pattern made for the NoI MkVI. Both types are seen on No4 MkI trials rifles. There appears to be no correlation with serial numbers or dates that I am aware of.

Acc. to The British Service Lee, in 1935 57 rifles were made up as the Model C trials pattern, with alloy buttplates, the backsight of the later accepted pattern using a plunger rather than a ball to lock in position, sling swivel on the guard etc. (I had one of these, No.A195-)

AFAIK, the backsights were not changed on the pre-1935 rifles as they were unique to those rifles and the later pattern could not be fitted unless the slot between the sight 'ears' was milled deeper to allow room for the plunger that replace the ball bearing used earlier. On my rifle mentioned above, this area was 'in the white' showing that the body had been modified from the original trials pattern, as this was the first pattern of rifle to feature the type of sight and detent plunger later standard on all No4s

[jmoore]

I seems the 1931/33 rifles have the six position sight elevating screws but retain the ball lock in the body.

Also no wire loops in front of the mag well.

The SBN numbers are there as well, but who knows the final results of THAT little test? If a particular batch of steel was unsatisfactory, I'm sure the bolt bodies would have been changes on the rifles w/ bad SBNs long ago, most likely by Enfield to bolts w/ NO SBN (maybe?).

An earlier thread on this forum seems to indicate that No1 MkVI rifles have a different sight axis pin height, but I haven't been able to confirm the measurements. Anybody have a No1 MkVI they'll let me pull apart and measure? I MIGHT even return it!

[Peter Laidler]

Maybe I'm being a little pedantic here with my engineers hat on but the SBNumber indicates a steel batch. Not that there was anything WRONG with that batch or that it needed 'a higher grade of steel'. It needed the grade of steel to do the job to the satisfaction of all that was required of it. Not necessarily the same thing! There are several different numbers and if it's not stamped under the handle, it's usually in the bolt rib slot. My A-O417 has a different SBN marked in the slot

[jmoore]

There seems to be quite a few SBNs on these rifles. Why the 1931/33s and not so much the others, I have no idea, but there they are... Why go to the trouble on this particular SMALL run of rifles?

[jona]

They were made in peace time by people that did not have a war to supply. They could take their time and do everything "by the book" with no short cuts.

[jmoore]

Well, that's reasonable and all, but then why not the 1931's? No war then either...