CC members called Elitists

[JimF4M1s (Deceased)]

Elitists, is an interesting choice of words.

I am pleased to be a long time (20+ year) member of the Carbine Club.

The January 1, 2010 Carbine Club newsletter #357 has a plethora of information in a Serial Number Update article (19 pages) written by J. B. Powers.

To me, this first newsletter of the year alone is worth the annual dues of $18. The $18 yearly dues probably barely cover the costs of the newsletters.

The January newsletter is 24 pages of information with some pictures that includes a Carbine of the Month data sheet and a members ads page. Plus a blank data sheet was also included. I counted 25 printed pages. And the postage on the 9" X 12" envelope (so it can lay flat) was $1.40.

That does not take into consideration the many hours it must have taken to research these articles. Somebody has to type it. It is sent to another member to proof read. Then you add the time to copy, staple, and insert them into the envelopes, that have to and from shipping labels stuck on to each member (there are hundreds of members). Somebody has to lick sticky flaps to seal them, then drive them to the post office.

Paper, envelopes, labels, postage, gas to and from the post office, add it up.

Now, a reminder, all of the time these people volunteer to make this happen.

So let's think again about it. $18 a year (one less breakfast out with the wife, for you single guys 3 less six packs ) for all of this is a bargain, hell it's a steal. If you were to join now and purchase the back issues, that is #357 newsletters. Information not to be found in other places. Days, maybe months of reading and re-reading.

Nobody is stiff armed to join. Those of us who are members receive information and updates that enhance our knowledge and enjoyment of Carbines. If some of you think that is asking too much, the simple answer is, do not join. But on the other hand it is not fair to also want/expect others to give out club information.

Some may choose to call this elitism. I choose to call it sacrifices made by club members to help our club and members continue to receive new and updated information on our hobby.

All that is asked, in return, is participation by sending in information as you come across it. No tattoo's, no secret handshakes, no funny hats involved.

Elitists, no. I would call it something more like a brotherhood.

Jim

Information

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[Tired Retired]

Jim, I read the post... I knew it was going to turn into an arguement. I got my own opinion (which everyone does) but I dont think I want to share it because I think I want to sell popcorn on the sidelines while this flares up....

To All, I ask just ask ONE thing - don't turn this into one of those aggressive, personal, insulting forum fights like they have over on the "other" forum. I like this place and I don't want to have to pull up roots and go someone else because everyone starts fighting... I still got 10 months left on my lease and I won't get my deposits back!

[kikokat]

Very well said Jim. For a carbine lover, it's about the best $18.00/year you can spend. And, it really doesn't take much effort to contribute to the data base and everyone's enjoyment.

There are always a few who just don't get it.

JMHO,
John

[Bufordm1]

Been a carbine club member for four years now. Been "collecting" carbines for only five years(although I've owned and shot one in particular for 40 years). The information I've gained from the news letters, and from other cc members on various forums is invaluable. I thank them every chance I get.

Some of these long time carbine collecters have been doing this for 40,50, 60+ years. What a mass of information. And you can get the full pack of newsletters dating back to the club inception for a couple hundred dollars. Talk about speeding up the learning curve!

cheers,Randy

[phillydude]

ELITIST ?????? WHO SAID THAT??? there are only 2 bargains in this world to me, first is a postage stamp, which will send a letter anywhere in this great country for a lousy 42 cents and the 2nd is the carbine club newsletter,....where else are you going to get the wealth of information they deliver with that 42 cent stamp . also, i've been a member for 4 months now and im looking forward to getting an other years newsletters soon........HEY ITS STILL CHEAP AT TWICE THE PRICE !

[JimF4M1s (Deceased)]

Jim, I read the post... I knew it was going to turn into an arguement. I got my own opinion (which everyone does) but I dont think I want to share it because I think I want to sell popcorn on the sidelines while this flares up....

Tired Retired,

I am not in any way trying to start an argument. I like this forum very much and do not want to see it transform like some others have done. This all began because someone asked about a build date. There is not a "single" reference that can answer that question 100%, all of the time. So folks have come up with their ways of narrowing it down the best they can. Using information that is available but needs some collating of sorts. Some of this information is supplied in Carbine Club newsletters. Maybe that would be a good project that someone could do and sell. Similar to the Winchester and 1911 serial number pamphlets. But it would be a huge undertaking.

I like to share information and photos as much as anyone. I think it is good for those who want to collect, or just shoot, to see and read things they might not be aware are out there. People on this forum ask and get answered most of the time. By Forum Board members, Carbine Club members, members of other Gun Clubs, and people just stopping by occasionally to visit. That's the fun of this forum. But additionally l have also bought every Carbine book I can find. I go to gun shows. I subscribe to countless gun magazines, as well as being a member of the Carbine Club, and participating on this forum. And I am sure many others do the same.

I have read post from folks who have a negative feeling towards the Carbine Club. Maybe they have had a bad experience in the past, I don't know. No one or group is happy all of the time. I know I am not. That's OK, maybe it's just not for everyone.

A Club is called that because it has members. Members try to help other members. That's all there is too it. Nothing fancy, just a bunch of folks who like the same thing. As with any group there can be some who are snobby, selfish, mean, but then there are also those that are friendly, helpful and nice. Many unselfishly contribute countess hours for members enjoyment. They don't ask for any compensation. It's for the good of the club and it's membership.

All I was trying to point out is that for a very low cost, I feel, you get a great value in return. No tricks or hidden agenda was suggested. Just a chance to get great information at a nominal price. Obviously I think so, and look forward to my Carbine Club newsletters showing up in my mailbox. As I do my Veterans group and Assault Craft group newsletters.

Most of us at one time or another have belonged to the biggest club of all, the United States Military. And we are damned proud of it! And like our buddies in the foxhole, we need to protect each others back, not stab a knife into it on this forum.

Jim

[Tired Retired]

Jim and All,

Please allow me to clarify my comments so that there are no misunderstanding.

First, I knew what was going to happen when I read the "subject" comments that a person posted in the other thread - someone (for right or wrong) was going to object to it. It was human nature and it was very predictable.

Second, while I have been in these forums for only a year, I know that there are a few specific things that will cause a major rift and cause everyone to pick sides. The Carbine Club, for whatever reason, is one of those topics that seem to cause that turmoil to surface. I have no idea why, but it does.

Third, I wrote my comical comments above in hopes of defusing that arguement before it started. I am not sure that it was successful, but we will see by tomorrow morning if the lid is back on the boiling pot or if it is going to explode.

Fourth, I do not believe that anyone on either side of the isle is intentionally being mean-spirited or is deliberately attacking anyone. This has always been a group of respectful gun-lovers and I am sure that it will stay that way. But I for one would prefer to be writing about cartouches or reading about Inland barrels than seeing posts about "he said" or "no your opinionis wrong". I am sure that if most of us wanted to get an arguement going, we could just deal with our ex-wives!

Fifth, I have clearly noted that there are TWO seperate groups that co-exists here and most people in the community just don't pick up on it. And because it is not picked up on, these "flare points", like the issue of free vs pay information, are not at least respected. In a nutshell, this community consists of what I can call "hobbyists" and "collectors". There is nothing wrong with either group, but I will explain both terms in a separate post to help everyone understand where each other may be coming from. (Setting myself up to get flamed or banned for that one.)

Lastly, yes, most of us have served in the US military. And please do not forget our brother Canadians (who host this board) also served both their country and as our allies to this day. I did my time and I have retired (hence the name). No one doubts anyone's resolve to be an American or even North American on this board. Yes, I know we have each other's back.

I wish we can get on with talking about Type Iv vs Type V stocks. This and the other thread just needs to close. It only takes us all to just walk away from the thread. In short, I can say this....

Dude, I'm just here because of the Carbines.....

[phil441]

Jim,
I just read through the thread I think you're referring to. I found no mention of CC Members being elitists. Only a reference to some members who know things but refuse to share for whatever reasons.
If the post that is causing consternation was one of mine, I apologize for any misunderstanding. If it was another thread, nevermind.

While TiredRetired is selling popcorn, I'll be selling butter to go with it.

Regards,
Phil

[Harlan (Deceased)]

As often happens in these days of written electronic communications, meanings and intentions are often misunderstood or taken wrong. It happens all the time, and neither party is at fault. It's only misunderstanding in the 'cold' world of written electronic communication.

(Hell, my own kid 'text messages' me these days when he could call easier, but I'm not going there!)

It says so much good to me about this forum that everyone acted like gentleman and didn't fly off the handle after reading one post and not following, or rereading the beginning of the 'conversation'

This happens so often in the email communications I've dealt with at work over years after email became the most often used mode of communications between a group of co-workers. Meanings are lost or misunderstood without the inflection of voice or the immediate response from another live individual.

I understood what Phil meant when he said some people acted elitist. His post was about his consternation of why when a member (most likely a new carbine owner) asked for help with the year his carbine was built, some people will not only not answer, but will act elitist and take the time to respond and tell the member to 'buy the books' or join a pay group, etc.

The thread was also talking about trying to make a 'sticky' of known dates to help new owners narrow down when their carbine was made, so there wouldn't be so many people having to ask the forum.

The discussion continued about incorrect info often quoted, and we were asking if members who really knew the answers would help update the sticky, if there ever was one.

'None' of the original discussion had anything to do with the Carbine Club. It wasn't until after the discussion that a post came up about the extensive info in the newest Carbine Club newsletter.

I think most of us know how much the Carbine Club does and respects all their work. There was never any suggestion of taking the new info from their newsletter. None at all.

I didn't know about the new info in the Carbine Club newsletter because I'm not a member. I tried to join a few years ago and had problems with the contact I had. (Unimportant, and I should have tried again, but life got in the way at that time and it fell away from importance)

With all the good I hear about the Carbine Club from personal friends such as Jim and Charlie, and many others who've posted comments, I'm planning to join and buy some of the back newsletters.

I don't see how the Carbine Club could be controversial or decisive in the first place (?)

There was never actually an issue here as far as I'm concerned -
Some fires were fanned a little unintentionally, or fear there would be an uprising of some sort, but the forum members acted civil and I'm proud.

~ Harlan

[Harlan (Deceased)]

Phil,

You posted while I was writing. Sorry if I covered what you just wrote!
(Pour a bunch of salt on Ed's popcorn when he isn't looking)

~ Harlan