How Original Is Yours...........

[Hal O'Peridol]

You would think so Brad, but apparently not!

My 1943 T has the staked screws, but no swivel.

Remember the "Olde Enfield Adage".....

With Enfields, never say never or always!

[jmoore]

Of course, if someone was trying to recreate the early to mid war-time (WWII) features, its easy to remove the mid-swivel. If its swivel-less then the bracket ought not be numbered either...(plus some other things that tend to show up on long seving rifles-some of which are also removable.)

Another possibility may have been that the last user- whether pre- or post- "service exit"- may have preferred using the rear swivel and just removed the middle one for simplicity.

[bradtx]

"Remember the "Olde Enfield Adage".....

With Enfields, never say never or always!" --Hal O'Peridol
I think this is one of the reasons L-Es are so interesting to us amateur history detectives.

jmoore, You're 100% correct. I included my unfinished (T) because I'm pretty confident it's as it was when it left H&H in the time period, Peter, expressed that it could be used as a 'control' piece. There is no reason to suspect that when an issue, whether the handy addition of the target swivel or the staked screws came to the attention of the REME, that H&H wouldn't have been informed, thus adding those steps to the conversion procedure.

Brad

[jmoore]

Put the sling through the butt swivel and utilize "U.S." style! (Can detach the rear or just loosen enough not to interfere whilst shooting "slung up".) The mid swivel option is just that w/ the M1907 sling- an option. Its super handy when using the British style web sling, though. I like the web sling better, in fact, when utilizing the mid swivel.

I see, but what would be the point of issuing the M1907 sling if there was no swivel on the guard to which to fit it? Might as well just issue a web sling if it can only be used on the butt and band swivels.

ETA (This may take a little review of the previous posts to make rather more clear)

I think I mised the point of your question, as well, you missed the intent of my post above.

When using the M1907 sling as a shooting aid, the shooter can leave the rear portion of the sling attached to the buttswivel, but loosened sufficiently as to not interfere w/ the front part which is doing all the work. Thus, the mid swivel serves no purpose in this case. In reality, there's NO reason to have a mid-swivel when using the M1907 as originally conceived.

Thus, the introduction of the mid-swivel would have been purely to accommodate the web sling which more or less requires the mid-swivel to be used whilst shooting the rifle. For carrying purposes, it really doesn't matter terribly. I like that the sling DOESN'T need reconfiguring or even adjusting when transitioning from shooting to carry modes, however it's not going to be easy to make it "parade ground" tight unless the sling is moved to the rear swivel.

This raises the interesting issue of whether the leather sling actually became just an option, or possibly obsolescent, when the mid-swivel was adopted.

Apparently, no official explanation was thought necessary, as the CES wasn't modified. Again, the M1907 sling may have been left in the kit as they were much harder to round up than the "bog standard" web sling. That gave the user an option- as hard as that may be to imagine!

Something else to make you go- "Hmmmm"

[Peter Laidler]

The leather sling was always part of the No4T CES and never declared obsolest. It was declared obsolescent at the introduction of the Nylon L8 sling for the L42. I suppose that strictly speaking, it COULD be correct to have an L8 nylon sling on a No4T because there were still No4T's sloshing around the system when the L8nylon sling was introduced. Certainly the RAF Regiment had No4T's as did some of the TA and 'colonials'

[jmoore]

If the M1907s were actively used to any degree, one would expect a ready source of spares. How late (or are they still) were they able to be ordered though the "usual" channels?

(Assuming that obsolescent means that they have some but they're not likely to get any more!)(?)

[Peter Laidler]

Thge 1907 sling was available up until the early 70's but it wasn't popular for many reasons - but it stayed because there were plenty! It was declared obsolescent and if you ordered one on that part number, the issue paperwork was amended by Ordnance to read the new nylon sling which was then issued. Even the thick nylon wasn't that good but the IDEA was. The later cotton/webbing thinner sling was the best of the bunch

[Brian Dick]

The staking trials test rifles were not unfinished. I happen to have one of them in my collection. It's listed in Peter's book, a 1944 conversion sn. K38685.