Go/No-Go Gauges -- Recommendations?

[Son]

Both style gauges can be used with the bolt fully assembled.

If your readings are close to failing or does fail you will get a more accurate reading with the bolt dissembled without the weight of the firing pin spring forcing the bolt closed.

Again you do NOT have to dissemble the bolt to check head space with either type gauge BUT.......

Good looking, exceedingly smart people with brilliant minds take the bolt apart and ugly unemployed shade tree mechanics check headspace with the bolt assembled.

I Resemble that last remark! ...just remembering back to some who pull their bolts apart.... I'd say they were just unqualified hack gorillas who never managed to develop a craftsman's "feel", but liked to show off the use of the opposed thumb that they had recently realized could do more than just grip tree branches!

I'd suggest maybe the coin type gauges are hard to use with the extractor on.......
Get the cartridge style as in Mr Horton's pic. Much less hassle.... (with a bit of practice..)

[Edward Horton]

For those of you reading this Son was mentioned in dispatches here in this forum by Mr. Laidler and checks head space on military weapons professionally. I wrote my posting to see if Son was awake and what his response would be to my comments.

By the British manual, dated 1957

SM 139 Armourers headspace 0.064 in. No.1 Mk. 1

SM 140 Armourers headspace 0.074 in. No.1 Mk. 1

Bolt assembled. Extractor and spring may be removed.
Rifle must not be cocked when checking CHS.
Gauge inserted in chamber.

P.S. I also have a manual that tells you to dissemble the bolt but I didn't want anyone to think Son had hairy knuckles that dragged on the ground and he still used flint tools. And I also want to remind all of you I'm still better looking than that (expletive deleted) Son.

[Son]

Another interesting pic post.... the list of gauges for testing the No4 doesn't include a .067" headspace gauge....
please note any in doubt, the two sizes listed in Mr Horton's pic are all you need.

PS; Mr Horton, I never called your good looks into doubt




...did you notice the little error on the list....?

[5thBatt]

After a recent thread on Surplusrifleforum about a broken firing pin, i don't think people should be advising the disassemble of bolts, checking your headspacing with a fully assembled bolt is more than good enough, going to extremes in checking headspacing should be left to those who are experienced & are looking for the extreme best out of their rifles, i would be more concerned about the condition & protrusion of the firing pin.

[Peter Laidler]

When we headspaced, we'd tuck the gauge under the extractor and almost hand feed it into the chamber. Then gently 'load' the bolt lever, check, then unlock and remove the gauge from the bolt by hand. Our gauges, made by CTG (Coventry Tool and Gauge Co) were very hardn and would crack and break if used harshly so we treated them well.

On my own rifle of course, I remove the extractor!

[Bindi2]

Another interesting pic post.... the list of gauges for testing the No4 doesn't include a .067" headspace gauge....
please note any in doubt, the two sizes listed in Mr Horton's pic are all you need.

PS; Mr Horton, I never called your good looks into doubt




...did you notice the little error on the list....?

Sharp my SON sharp.

[Edward Horton]

Another interesting pic post.... the list of gauges for testing the No4 doesn't include a .067" headspace gauge....
please note any in doubt, the two sizes listed in Mr Horton's pic are all you need.

PS; Mr Horton, I never called your good looks into doubt




...did you notice the little error on the list....?

Son

Questions

1. Besides Greek HXP cartridge cases do you reload American Winchester or Remington cases, and if so do you get the same amount of reloads from theses American cases as the Greek HXP? (case longevity)

2. Is the error you are referring to "steel, reject" instead of "steel, low limit" or possibly "steel vegemite no limits".

[Edward Horton]

After a recent thread on Surplusrifleforum about a broken firing pin, i don't think people should be advising the disassemble of bolts, checking your headspacing with a fully assembled bolt is more than good enough, going to extremes in checking headspacing should be left to those who are experienced & are looking for the extreme best out of their rifles, i would be more concerned about the condition & protrusion of the firing pin.

I agree, my problem is I worked for 38 years taking aircraft and military combat support equipment apart for overhaul. Therefore
"I gots to take everything apart" or I'm not happy.

A safe alternative would be to soak the bolt in Kroil or a penetrating oil and then "boil" the bolt clean and re-oil without disassembly. As a side note the bolts were all dissembled during their yearly inspection by the Armourers, inspected, re-oiled and re-assembled. You have to dissemble the bolt to inspect the firing pin spring, and I dissemble all my bolt just for this purpose at least once.

The two most used and abused springs on our Enfield's are the firing pin spring and extractor spring. Springs do wear out, the rear springs on my truck need to be replaced because the rear of the truck is arse end low.

If anyone stored the rifle for any length of time with the bolt closed and cocked both the extractor and firing pin spring could have taken a set and become weaker. (meaning they need to be replaced)

[Son]

Son

Questions

1. Besides Greek HXP cartridge cases do you reload American Winchester or Remington cases, and if so do you get the same amount of reloads from theses American cases as the Greek HXP? (case longevity)

2. Is the error you are referring to "steel, reject" instead of "steel, low limit" or possibly "steel vegemite no limits".

1) I do have a small quantity of Winchester cases in two other calibers, but they are not subject to the LE "generous chamber", so any info there means nothing anyway. Got another K of HXP to empty then I'lll have 2K cases. Several hundred have had six or seven reloads (most of these have had two light FLR's)
2) Yep!
I use the technique Peter described above, slipping the gauge under the extractor- left hand in through the mag well...

I agree, my problem is I worked for 38 years taking aircraft and military combat support equipment apart for overhaul. Therefore
"I gots to take everything apart" or I'm not happy.

A safe alternative would be to soak the bolt in Kroil or a penetrating oil and then "boil" the bolt clean and re-oil without disassembly. As a side note the bolts were all dissembled during their yearly inspection by the Armourers, inspected, re-oiled and re-assembled. You have to dissemble the bolt to inspect the firing pin spring, and I dissemble all my bolt just for this purpose at least once.

The two most used and abused springs on our Enfield's are the firing pin spring and extractor spring. Springs do wear out, the rear springs on my truck need to be replaced because the rear of the truck is arse end low.

If anyone stored the rifle for any length of time with the bolt closed and cocked both the extractor and firing pin spring could have taken a set and become weaker. (meaning they need to be replaced)

The book (the one for the No1 rifle) gives a spring weight spec for the cocking piece to both first and second sear positions, as well as for the extractor claw engagement. There is no spec for "at rest length" for any springs (unlike most modern stuff...) in the No1, so no need to strip it. I am guilty of not having read the No4 manual, but have never seen mention of a spec either. I know a "competent" visual is an important part of any inspection, but we are not testing against the possibility of a weapon failing in battle. If either spring fails on the range, it isn't going to end with having to learn another language.... We just take it home and fix it next week or so.

My practical side takes over from the "need" to pull it apart in this case. Like 5thBatt suggests, the "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" technique should be the default setting here for most people. Unless they have complete understanding of the relationship of all the bits and the correct assembly settings, (or something is busted or suspect) I always say don't pull it apart.

[Parashooter]

For the amateur who hasn't developed a good idea of how much resistance is offered by a Lee-Enfield extractor encountering the breech, removing the extractor before attempting headspace measurements seems a sound idea. On the other hand, as long as the headspace gauge has a clearance hole for the firing pin, where's the need to fully disassemble the bolt when the simple step of holding back the trigger while closing the bolt on the gauge takes mainspring compression out of the picture?

With a some practice, one can learn to close the intact bolt on an empty chamber, mentally note the resistance for that individual rifle, then close on the gauge and judge any added resistance. From what I've seen on various forums, this ability isn't easily learned by the average tinkerer - who will get better results by removing the extractor and holding the trigger.

I've seen enough reports of damaged components or faulty re-assembly after unnecessary bolt disassembly, often with inadequate tools, to convince me most untrained folks are better off leaving the L-E firing-pin assembly intact - except when necessary to replace worn or broken parts.