Seargent York and 1903

[Hondo]

Just now watching Seargent York movie on TCM....we are lucky he survived WW1...his rfile serial number assigned in the movie was under 250,000

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[Calif-Steve]

Big debate over M1917 or M1903. Seems his unit carried M1917's.

[Wulf]

If you read his diary you will see that when they arrived in England they were issued British rifles for combat.

[jarrodeu]

If i remember correctly C.S. Ferris makes a good case in his 1917 book for Sergeant York using a M1903 Springfield.

Jarrod

[Jim Tarleton]

We will never know. York himself seems never to have publicly stated which rifle he used, and anything from anyone else is conjecture. His unit had been issued M1917's, and unless he somehow stole or traded for a 1903, he had a M1917. It is likened to arguing what size stone David used to slay Goliath. Those who really know are long gone.

It is kinda like the WWI era statue made for the Army to represent a Doughboy. The model was a Marine friend of the sculptor, thus it became a Marine statue when the Army refused to pay the guy.

Jim

[andy*]

If y'all look up the Tennessee State Museum, they will gladly show you a picture or two of Sgt. York's Longrifle. Which is decidedly not a 1903 or 1917.
Andy

[Jim Tarleton]

And he didn't use either one of those Longrifles in France.

Jim

[andy*]

Didn't say he did, just thought that y'all would like see a rifle that was used by him for sure. I am aware that the U.S. stopped fielding a "Longrifle" around 1812 or so when they dropped the 1792 contract series of rifles... Andy

[John Beard]

While researching his book on the Model 1917 rifle, C.S. Ferris contacted the York museum in Pall Mall, TN, to learn what he could about the rifle that York carried. To his surprise, museum personnel referred Ferris to York's son, Andrew, who was still alive and lived nearby. They gave Andrew's telephone number to Ferris. So Ferris called Andrew.

In the conversation that ensued, Ferris was shocked to learn from Andrew that York carried a Model 1903 Springfield rifle. Startled by this information, Ferris asked Andrew point blank, "Did you and your father specifically discuss the rifle he carried in France?" Andrew replied, "Yes, we certainly did. And he carried a Model 1903 Springfield rifle."

Andrew then went on to describe how his father played a role in directing production of the movie, "Sergeant York". And he pointed out that the rifle correctly used in the movie was a Model 1903 Springfield rifle (although I understand that it may be a Bannerman version).

Andrew then went on to describe how the statue of his father resting on the grounds of the Tennessee State Capital in Nashville correctly depicts him using a Model 1903 Springfield rifle.

Ferris called me immediately after he got off the phone with Andrew, told me what he had learned, and related parts of the conversation. Ferris was obviously startled by what he had learned. Ferris asked if I could check out the York statue in Nashville. And I did. And, make no mistake, the statue clearly depicts York aiming and firing a Model 1903 Springfield rifle.

A year or so later, an article on this same subject appeared in the American Rifleman magazine.

I am aware that York's unit in France had been issued Model 1917 rifles. I do not question that. But could York have acquired a Model 1903 rifle if he had wanted one? I have no doubt that he could. Model 1903 rifles were certainly present all over France. Hundreds of thousands of them!

One must ask why York's family member would seek to overturn the generally-held belief that York carried a Model 1917 rifle. Do they not understand the difference between a Model 1903 rifle and a Model 1917 rifle? I do not accept that proposition. Do they have a vested interest, financial or otherwise, for promoting the Model 1903 rifle over the Model 1917 rifle? Hardly! So, on what basis do we challenge their position? Simply that his fellow soldiers were carrying Model 1917 rifles? That's not much of a basis in light of family statements and artifacts to the contrary.

This discourse will not likely change anyone's mind. Pre-conceived notions do not die easily. But, they do reflect on those who cling to them without further consideration or study.

J.B.

[Jim Tarleton]

My father told me he carried an M1 Carbine in WWII (European Theater), but can I say positively that he did so? No. I wasn't there, and neither were York's sons in France (or even alive at that point in time). Many a vet has told his sons tales of what he did in the wars. All are not necessarily true, and repeating them does not change that fact. I don't know what rifle York carried, and neither does anyone else still living.


I have stated this before, military units do not cotton to soldiers carrying weapons they were not issued. Having said that, I once used an AK47 because it was handy and my M16 was not. It does happen, and York may very well have utilized a 1903 Springfield. Other than the statements by York's sons, I know of no public statement where York identified the rifle he used. The fact remains, we do not know exactly what rifle York used.

Jim