Wrapped Enfield (Before and After)

[MJ1]

If you are saving a rifle for the potential of monetary return, sell it now and take your best price. Then put the money in savings (even at 1-2%) and make some real money. Firearms are a poor investment for making money, even collectible ones in fairly scarce supply. I can tell you that from my perspective with over 50 years of buying and selling, I would have been better off to have put the $14 I paid for my first Enfield in the bank and drawn simple interest over the decades. No money in guns. Maybe in accessories, but firearms are a losing proposition.

Bog water.

..MJ..

[enfield303t]

MJ1 good comment and true. Just to prove a point I will say a very good friend of mine purchased a Volcanic Carbine in 1963? for 1021.00 from a auction in England. It was engraved and nickel plated and in beautiful condition. Todays value probably $20,000.00.
Take the same $1021.00 invest it at 2% for 55 years and the interest amounts to around $1,684.00 which does not take into account inflation. The interest is taxable so you probably will end up with $1,200.00. I'll take a chance on a gun anytime.
The gun and the price...true story.

[Gingercat]

I have no personal experience on this, but, I have been told you can have a collectors ticket with "occasional" use variation which allows use and authority to buy ammunition.

Define 'occasional' !!!!

A collectors (only) ticket, I assume, would not allow ammunition purchases.

The Home Office guidance to the UK police 2002 (section 13.53) does give examples of where a 'collector' would be able to also shoot their rifle(s). Such a reason is for 'occasional' test firing on Home Office approved ranges.

Having proved myself a bona fide 'collector' to the local police, I have 6 Lee-Enfields now on my FAC, with this 'collect and occasional use' status, along with a couple lever action, pistol calibre carbines for 'target' shooting. The Historic Breechloading Smallarms Association (HBSA), which I'm a member of, actively promotes the range shooting of historical 'collections' - otherwise, how would we know what it really felt like to shoot a Martini Henry or a SMLE?

Apologies for hijacking the thread!

More on topic - I have a UF55 No4 Mk2 I bought last year (re-imported into the UK and with CAI US import stamps). It is unwrapped (not by me), but doesn't look to have fired many rounds at all. In the latest Lee-Enfield Rifle Association (LERA) newsletter, there is an article about getting your service rifle to shoot well. There is a comment about the 1950's rifles:-

"So, what about one of the brand new 1950's, unissued No.4 Mk2 rifles that comes straight out of the brown paper and cosmoline grease; surely that'll shoot well? Sorry to disappoint, but it'll still need some TLC if you want to dial in a sight setting and have bullets consistently go where the sights say they will. (Indeed, if you start to shoot it before it's had that TLC, you risk expensive damage to the vital bearings where the metal action attaches to the wooden furniture.)

For someone like me, yet to fire their 'new' rifle, is it a question of ensuring all screws are tight (particularly the front trigger guard screw), or more radical 'tender loving care'?

On the subject of guns as an investment - here in the UK I think many people are 'investing' in the more rare examples, as bank savings interest rates are extremely low and even in the few years I've been collecting, gun values seem to have gone up markedly compared to potential bank interest.

All the best

Mike

[Thunderbox]

More on topic - I have a UF55 No4 Mk2 I bought last year (re-imported into the UK and with CAI US import stamps). It is unwrapped (not by me), but doesn't look to have fired many rounds at all. In the latest Lee-Enfield Rifle Association (LERA) newsletter, there is an article about getting your service rifle to shoot well. There is a comment about the 1950's rifles:-

"So, what about one of the brand new 1950's, unissued No.4 Mk2 rifles that comes straight out of the brown paper and cosmoline grease; surely that'll shoot well? Sorry to disappoint, but it'll still need some TLC if you want to dial in a sight setting and have bullets consistently go where the sights say they will. (Indeed, if you start to shoot it before it's had that TLC, you risk expensive damage to the vital bearings where the metal action attaches to the wooden furniture.)

For someone like me, yet to fire their 'new' rifle, is it a question of ensuring all screws are tight (particularly the front trigger guard screw), or more radical 'tender loving care'?

The new-in-wrap rifles frequently do not have proper forend fit, either from wood seasoning over 50+ years, or - more likely - the forends were never fitted correctly at the factory. Often the handguards are also a little on the "fat" side in the barrel channel, and need some attention. The front trigger guard screw bushing is usually unfitted/untrimmed as well - leading to poor receiver contact at the bedding points. I guess the factory intended that the end-user - the unit armourer - would do the final set up of each new rifle.

Finally, the bore of a NIW is new and often the rifle's performance improves over the first 200 rounds or so.

A lot of NIW owners express disappointment over the poor shooting performance of their mint rifles, and are dismayed that a tatty old No4 at 1/4 the price they paid for their beauty can often out-shoot them!

[madcratebuilder]

I have overseen the unwrapping of hundreds of Fazakerley FTR 50's era No4's (not 'new' but new as in FTR) of all marks but mostly Mk1/2's and 3's prior to issue and never found rust on any of them.

I don't know how you can have them wrapped AND proof fired in the UK. Can anyne explain? Do they unwrap them 'a little bit'?

Contrary to what the books say, if you have a UF55A xxxxx serial number, then that is a UK MoD contract batch and nothing to do with an Irish contract. They might have purchased them later and sold them off

Ah, yes madcrate, I think you misunderstood. In the UK, before the rifles are sold on by a dealer, they have to be proofed by the commercial proof house. But only if they're sold in the UK. If they are exported, then they don't have to be UK proofed. In the UK, the 'authorities' don't/won't accept the tough and stringent military proof. Don't ask me why, I don't think anyone knows.

The UF serial number prefix was a specific UK Military requirement and many people seem to think that the wrapped No4's are all Irish contract.

Thanks Peter, that was cleared things up for me. From what I have read in the past I was lead to believe that the 'BNP' or 'NP' proofing was a requirement to be sold out of service. I see it's only if sold in the UK.

Finally, the bore of a NIW is new and often the rifle's performance improves over the first 200 rounds or so.

I found that to be true with me NIW UF series rifle, at about 160 rounds it started to shoot what I expected. I need to bone up on stock fitting before I shot my unfired PF.

[enfield303t]

Rather than cut open a No4 if all you want is a shooter please consider selling it to me and I am sure we can "make a deal". I just hate to see them opened. I would appreciate a pm if you live in Canada and want to sell one. There are lots of great shooters available to purchase.

[RobD]

I should like to endorse what Seth (sorry, Thunderbox) says. However, if you spend a few £ getting Seth (er.. Thunderbox) to set your rifle up for you, as he did for me, it becomes what I can best describe as a mid-20th Century death-ray.
The accuracy of a little-fired No 4 Mk 2 at 100-200 yds is uncanny.

[Brian Dick]

I've exported many back to England in the past four years. As far as I know, almost all were unwrapped, cleaned and sent to proof in Birmingham less the woodwork so that it wouldn't get marred in the process. One particular RFD has since run out of them and isn't purchasing them over here now because of the low BPS-USD exchange. He sold the Hell out of them though when he had them in inventory. I'm sorry to say I even let two go that were personal stash and now I wish I had them back, (you guys in England that have them enjoy them!). I do have one left that I purchased many years ago at a show but it was cleaned up by the previous owner and hasn't even had a hundred rounds through it. Not long after I started this buisiness they were on the market via Century Arms and I was buying them a dozen at a time. I even had consecutive numbered sets. I had rifles imported prior to that by Interarms when I was still in Florida that came straight from British stores at Donnington. They were also in beautiful condition. There were wartime British rifles in new condition in those lots along with some of the harder to find variants like 1/2 and 1/3 rifles. I was splitting a batch of twenty at a time with another dealer and driving to the distributor in Orlando to pick them up personally. I was smart enough to hang onto a few of those. The good old days! I reckon they've come and gone.

[MJ1]

I know a shooter with one and he had it to the range just days after opening it.



It's all in what you goal is.

[madcratebuilder]

I concur they make excellent shooters.