No 1 MK 3 rebuild, possible bedding issue

[yellowhousejake]

Good day everyone,

Last year I was given a No1 Mk3 that had been sporterized but not bubba'd. The metal was intact and in excellent condition but the forearm was cut and forearm metal was missing.

I stumbled onto a set of original Enfield replacement wood and metal including a nosecap without serial number. These were not Ishy parts, and showed the E and broad arrow but no serials. I found an excellent rear sight with windage, but I am still looking for volley sights and a cut off. Otherwise the rifle is back to original appearance.

I carefully fitted the forearm and handguards as per the Canadian manual, I have approx 6lbs pressure at the barrel tip with the nosecap installed. I also have .020 gap around the barrel at the nosecap.

Pictures are here under the "SMLE" folder.
DAve Status

The rifle shoots well. Last weekend I went to a practice shoot with several instructors from our state and at 400 yards I was keeping all shots on a 6moa steel plate, doing just as well as the Garand shooters. Not bad for no peep sight and a 96 year old rifle.

The problem. I have owned and repaired several Enfields over the years. Mostly cleaning, refurbishing to original specs, and repairing stocking. Always I was able to get excellent accuracy and put the POI where is was supposed to be. However, with this Mk3 I am having issues. With the .030 front sight I am shooting 8 moa high. This I checked with the 25 yard sighting target and verified at 400 yards as mentioned earlier.

I am at a loss to understand why. Posssibly the crown? The barrel had one flaw which was a very bad nick in the crown which I removed. I cannot believe that recrowning would cause such a large change in POI.

I am open to suggestions as to what I might do, what I might have done wrong, or what I should check.

If the suggestion is that a under 4moa Mk3 should be left as is, I will make a new front sight to the needed height and go on shooting her.

Thanks,

DAve

Information

Warning: This is a relatively older thread This discussion is older than 360 days. Some information contained in it may no longer be current.

[Thunderbox]

Quite a few apparently normal SMLEs do shoot very high - ie outside the normal range of issue sight blades. Sometimes it is not at all apparent what is causing the problem - especially if the rifle appears 100% to specification. The usual check list I run through is:

1. Vary the inner band screw setting (usually just affect group size);

2. Change the nosecap (can have a dramatic effect on POI and/or group size);

3. Replace rear sight leaf - even if the original appears perfectly normal.

[Peter Laidler]

Remember the saying 'common problems occur commonly'. There are another 3 higher foresights you could try first. That'll certainly lower the group. But I think it's a fore-end fitting problem and No1 fore-ends are a lot trickier to fit than No4's, believe me

[yellowhousejake]

Quite a few apparently normal SMLEs do shoot very high - ie outside the normal range of issue sight blades. Sometimes it is not at all apparent what is causing the problem - especially if the rifle appears 100% to specification. The usual check list I run through is:

1. Vary the inner band screw setting (usually just affect group size);

2. Change the nosecap (can have a dramatic effect on POI and/or group size);

3. Replace rear sight leaf - even if the original appears perfectly normal.

1) Hmm, I honestly didn't think about the inner band. I have in the past simply made certain that the band was loose in the wood with the proper relief throughout, then would tighten the barrel against the forend stud. I should try adjusting it.

2) My nosecap did not touch the barrel once the inner band screw was tightened. I still relived it another .020.

3) I had wondered about wear on the elevator, didn't think the leaf would be that much different. I am looking at needing .090 increase at the front sight, that seems like a lot of difference in sight leafs.

DAve

[yellowhousejake]

Remember the saying 'common problems occur commonly'. There are another 3 higher foresights you could try first. That'll certainly lower the group. But I think it's a fore-end fitting problem and No1 fore-ends are a lot trickier to fit than No4's, believe me

Well I think I need nearly .090 to reach the proper front sight height, so my suspicion is bedding. Or my incorrect bedding I should say. This is the first time I have ever installed a "new" forestock.

I bedded like so,

1) Relieved only enough wood to allow the receiver to drop in place making contact at the knox form and the back of the receiver. Checked with lamp black.

2) Removed only enough wood to allow the receiver to back up and make contact at the rear of the trigger mounting (tabs? lugs? bosses?).

3) Relieved around the inner band only enough to allow it to move freely with the trigger guard installed and tightened down.

4) Relieved the barrel channel to ensure no wood touched with the trigger guard installed and the inner band tightened.

After 300 rounds the receiver is still tight in the forestock.

Any suggestions on where I might begin looking at the bedding? I am seriously tempted to simply grab some steel and make a new front sight and call it a shooter. It will never be a collector's rifle, and a proper looking front sight with a taller blade would not detract from the rifle's enjoyment and likely never be noticed by anyone except perhaps an Enfield armorer ;^)

It certainly shoots well, with little or no vertical stringing even after 20 rounds of fast firing on a 90 day. Check this post, second to last picture, a beautiful sight.
AAR: Indiana KD Day 2010 (with Pics!)

Thanks for the assistance.

DAve

[Edward Horton]

The inner band screw should only be tightened until spring compression is felt, if over tightened the barrel is pulled down in the middle causing the rifle to shoot high.

The inner band should only be tightened until spring compression is felt, the inner band acts like a shock absorber helping to dampen barrel vibrations. When the inner band screw is adjust correctly within its tuning range the screw should be free to move up and down when pushed with your screw driver.



With the nose cap and hand guards removed and pushing on the inner band screw with your screw driver the screw and inner band should move freely up and down. Think of your car tire and wheel being free to move up and down and the movement being dampened by the shock absorber.

[Peter Laidler]

And don't forget, we only range and accuracy tested our rifles with issue spec .303" ball ammunition. What are you using?

[jmoore]

I thought the inner band screw's shoulder kept it from being overtightened and bottoming the spring.

I also thought that the front spring loaded plunger was to ensure uniform contact w/ top of the barrel hole in the nosecap.

Not that I've had many dramas w/ getting SMLEs/No.1s to zero (or to shoot well until they get rather hot). If I have problems it's usually w/ No.4s...

I have noticed that "slow" rounds do tend to print higher at close range (100yds) w/ some rifles but usually not more than 2-3" over standard ammo (MV variation of over 150fps or so).

[Son]

Very slight alteration to Mr Horton's post if I may... The inner band screw should be tightened up to lock. The screw itself has a shoulder at the depth of thread to lock against. This leaves the length of the larger diameter from the shoulder to the head of the screw for the spring, the washer inside the foreend and the thickness of wood of the foreend.
To test, do as Mr Horton describes above. If it doesn't move, then something else is wrong... not the tension of the screw.

[yellowhousejake]

And don't forget, we only range and accuracy tested our rifles with issue spec .303" ball ammunition. What are you using?

Currently I am using Privi,
"Prvi Partizan Ammunition 303 British 174 Grain Full Metal Jacket"

Brass seems good though I bought several hundred rounds and have not reloaded any of it yet. Accuracy seems good as well.

DAve