No 1 MK 3 rebuild, possible bedding issue

[Edward Horton]

yellowhousejake

Any Enfield Rifle that looks that good restored must be made to shoot as well also, you have done a beautiful job.

You also have some of the best people in the world helping you here, specifically the well known Armourer Mr. Laidler, Son the Australian and Thunderbox from the UK. I'm saying this to help you weigh the advice given here in this forum in fixing your problem.

Mr. Laidler stated your Enfield was sighted in using Mk.7 military ammunition which has flat base bullet and not boat tail bullet. The Prvi Partizan ammunition you are shooting is nothing more than modern Mk.8z machine gun ammunition, try switching and shooting flat base bullet ammuntion.



Prvi Partizan 303 British 174 Grain FMJ is Mk.8z maching gun ammunition and is NOT standard Mk.7 ammunition.







Try shooting any flat base bullet ammunition and see if the POI changes, a standard boat tail bullet can be deflected with anything but a perfect bore and crown at the muzzle. The British used the rebated boat tail Mk.8z bullet for a very good reason.

Information

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[yellowhousejake]

yellowhousejake

Any Enfield Rifle that looks that good restored must be made to shoot as well also, you have done a beautiful job.

You also have some of the best people in the world helping you here, specifically the well known Armourer Mr. Laidler, Son the Australian and Thunderbox from the UK. I'm saying this to help you weigh the advice given here in this forum in fixing your problem.

Mr. Laidler stated your Enfield was sighted in using Mk.7 military ammunition which has flat base bullet and not boat tail bullet. The Prvi Partizan ammunition you are shooting is nothing more than modern Mk.8z machine gun ammunition, try switching and shooting flat base bullet ammuntion.

Thanks for the kind words. I very much appreciate the help and I am thinking long and hard about the next step to ensure I do the right thing.

I never noticed the "BT" on the Privi box, but that does explain a lot. My previous Enfields, A Lithgow, a Savage, and a BSA, all shot beautifully using my standard load of a Sierra 180gr Pro Hunter over WW 760 powder. The Sierra Pro Hunter is a flat base bullet. Something to keep in mind.

Re-reading everyone's information I checked that my barrel forward of the inner band is bedded to the forearm properly, it is. With the inner band tight and the nosecap off, stud removed, a dollar bill will not slip between the barrel and the wood. This I checked from the inner band all the way to the front sight.

I checked next to see if the inner band when tightened will still move when a screwdriver is pressed into the screw, it will NOT. Tightening and loosening the inner band screw, will however, show movement of the barrel. The inner band is certainly applying pressure to the barrel. I believe I have the barrel channel bedded correctly. I may not have the inner band socket(?) in the forearm correct though.

As to relieving the nosecap. I removed at most .010 out of the nosecap which can be easily put back if needed. To check if that is my problem, I can add shims to the nosecap for the barrel to press against.

I will be on the firing line for the next three days instructing, but I have next week free until I start a new job. I will look into the forearm bedding then and report my findings.

Thank you all again!

DAve

[Son]

Dave, you sound like you know what you are doing- so here's a possible quick fix. Can you make a spacer, probably start with something under a mm thick, like a tiny washer. Fit it on the thread end of the inner band screw and make the outside diameter the size of the large diameter of the screw. This will extend the length where the spring sits and may relieve the band enough to give it free play in the wood by Mr Horton's test and stop the barrel being pulled down hard.
The barrel should have contact in all the points I described earlier without the band tightened, what you need to achieve is when tightening the band you are not moving the barrel.
Then do another testfire.

[JBS]

Is it possible that over the many years of installing and removing the inner band screw that the threads have been worked back a bit farther than they should and this is allowing the screw to be turned down too much and bottoming out the inner band instead of letting it float on the spring ?

[yellowhousejake]

Dave, you sound like you know what you are doing- so here's a possible quick fix. Can you make a spacer, probably start with something under a mm thick, like a tiny washer. Fit it on the thread end of the inner band screw and make the outside diameter the size of the large diameter of the screw. This will extend the length where the spring sits and may relieve the band enough to give it free play in the wood by Mr Horton's test and stop the barrel being pulled down hard.
The barrel should have contact in all the points I described earlier without the band tightened, what you need to achieve is when tightening the band you are not moving the barrel.
Then do another testfire.

Sounds like a good thing to try, I was thinking along the same lines. My suspicion is that the unused replacement wood I acquired needs to have the inner band screw hole set to a proper depth, which I have not done. Further inspection this afternoon shows that the inner band spring is fully compressed when the screw shoulder meets the inner band.

Whether I remove wood from the inside or outside of the screw hole remains to be discovered. I think I need to take the wood from the outside of the hole so the inner band remains in the same position, and the spring is compressed less when the screw shoulder meets the inner band.

Does that make sense? Inside and outside of the hole? I am speaking of the wood shoulder inside the screw hole that the inner band spring rests against.
A washer may give me the results I am looking for and then I can use the required washer thickness to know how much wood to remove.

That is simple enough I may give it a try tomorrow.

JBS -- the forestock and all metal forward of the receiver are new, unused, armorer replacement parts. They wear no markings except the broad arrow. There is no wear on the screw.

DAve

[Son]

I wouldn't touch the wood just yet.
Does the barrel have downward pressure on the muzzle end of the foreend without the inner band screw fitted?
If the barrel pulls down when you tighten the inner band screw as you said earlier, then removing wood on the top side of the hole can only make it worse. Taking it from the outside would work, but how much do you have there to start with...?

If the bedding is correct with the inner band screw not fitted, then I wouldn't touch the wood again. Any alterations you make to the middle now are going to require alterations to the front and the back as well- virtually starting again!

Extend the collar on the screw a little until the tightening of the inner band does not pull the barrel down... or leave the spring out so it does nothing and then test fire it to check your poa against the poi. The inner band was only to help "tame" the barrel in the event of a foreend warping. In a correctly fitted foreend, it should do nothing.

[yellowhousejake]

I wouldn't touch the wood just yet.
Does the barrel have downward pressure on the muzzle end of the foreend without the inner band screw fitted?
If the barrel pulls down when you tighten the inner band screw as you said earlier, then removing wood on the top side of the hole can only make it worse. Taking it from the outside would work, but how much do you have there to start with...?

If the bedding is correct with the inner band screw not fitted, then I wouldn't touch the wood again. Any alterations you make to the middle now are going to require alterations to the front and the back as well- virtually starting again!

Extend the collar on the screw a little until the tightening of the inner band does not pull the barrel down... or leave the spring out so it does nothing and then test fire it to check your poa against the poi. The inner band was only to help "tame" the barrel in the event of a foreend warping. In a correctly fitted foreend, it should do nothing.

Well, I got a chance to work on the tuning a bit and these are my discoveries. First, nothing changed!

I verified the contact at the inner band and the nose.

I tried shooting with the inner band screw loosened, all the way to the point of removal.

I tried shooting with the nose cap stud spring removed.

I tried all combinations in between.

Still, I am inches high with the 25 yard sight-in target.

I am leaning towards the crown. It had a nick that I polished out. Possibly the crown was not straight in the first place.

I am also concerned that the Privi ammo may shoot differently, I just ordered a few boxes of Sierra 180 grain FB pro hunters to reload.

I can try making contact at the nose cap. Suggestions? I can stake the inside of the nose cap hole to provide contact, or I can add cork to the forearm tip. I only require barely 4 lbs of lift to pull the muzzle off the forearm so I can shim to make nosecap contact and still be less than 7 lbs required to lift the muzzle (I believe).

Again, thanks all for the generous help.

DAve