Here;s some neat old bullets, reeking of history, but ...

[smellie]

As to our fun bullets above, I would say that the big boy would weigh about a pound and likely had his birth in the magazine of a Hotchkiss Revolving Cannon. Doesn't look quite right for the Maxim Pom-Pom.

The little tiny one is something else. For one thing, that is an awfully long bullet for that weight; I would think that it could have a good big hollow in the base. I am using Text Book of Small Arms -1909 as my basic reference in this matter, backed up by Barnes' 'Cartridge of the World, 6th Edition' and between them they have come up with nothing that fits the bill entirely on this one. Bullet diameter is fine for several types, but we don't have it exactly. We DO have the length at 1.22" which means that if it indeed is a .45 caliber, it should weigh about 500 grains rather than the 365 which we know it weighs. Using these references, there appears to be no rifle using a .45-caliber bullet of 365 grains which is 1.22 inches in length.

Quality control in the late BP period often was not very good by our standards and ammo collectors as well as gun people have to get used to some pretty awesome variations. I would think the weight would be regarded as more important than the length of the bullet, and there were very few cartridges which used a 365 in a true large-bore rifle... and none of them were British, which meant that likely they also had right-hand rifling, which this bullet exhibits. I would think it more likely that this one came out of an Austrian Werndl than out of a Bulgarian or Russian Berdan.

But I'm only guessing as to that, having eliminated the others through their own specs, and so I could well be wrong. C'mON you guys! There has to be somebody here that knows more than I do! Now's your chance to prove it, not that it's all that hard!

What do YOU think?

[Surpmil]

This one was mounted on a piece of card and had an inscription that was written by my Great-grandfather and read at the bottom:

‘Martini Henry Ball .450’ Recovered Jan 1900

From Site of Rorke's Drift, found in compound 18 yards to West of 2nd line of defense.’

This would suggest that the Martini round was fired at very close range from the 2nd line of defence as the Zulus closed in on the position.

Unfortunately the card has long since disintegrated but I wrote down the inscription when my Grandmother passed the bullets on to me.

I wonder what would cause a card of the late Victoria era to "disintegrate"...? There's an awful lot of paper from that era still around in perfectly good condition, not to mention hundreds of years earlier.

Something about this doesn't smell right.

Now I wonder if it was just this card that "disintegrated" or if all 250 of them did? Hm!

It certainly was an odd thing to find officers and OR's "paling up" on leave. Not impossible, but "HIGHLY irregular" as they used to say.

I suppose it would be easy enough to find out who GGF was and whether "The Bedfordshire Regiment" he purportedly served in and their/his movements would in fact have allowed him to pursue his metal detecting career. ;-)

I see the feedback for these auctions is private, meaning the seller has set it up so that no one else can see the item the feedback relates to.

[RJW NZ]

yeah, thats the kind of thing that is odd, along with dumping family history. Normally a collection like this in the UK would go intact to a museum collection, small or large, as an extended loan with the families name for the glory of it all, big and proud for all to see. Its odd to break it up.
250 pieces at 20 gbp ea equals what, $7500? so I guess there some money in it.

[Beerhunter]

I'm really sorry tbat I can't take part because I know what they both are.

[RJW NZ]

New developments, I emailed the seller of the Roarkes Drift ammo, very interesting story, one I think we all understand;

Hello Roger,
I appreciate you query and understand completely your feelings
on breaking up a collection like this.
The reason I am selling items in
single lots is that I have no intention of selling the entire collection. I
am only selling items that I have multiples of. For example; I have 12
enfield revolver rounds from abu klea. I am afraid it is as simple as
needing to make some money. I am feeling the recession as are many people
and I have a huge collection of nearly 250 items that hardly see the light
of day. You're right, it is a great collection that holds a lot of meaning
for me and the history of my family and if I were to sell the lot at an
auction house then I probably would make a lot more money but then I would
never be able to replace it. The best item for me in the collection is my
great grandfathers journal from 1905 onwards until he died in 1921 of
wounds he received in france during WW1 and of which he never
recovered.
Best regards and thanks for your interest Joel

-capt_harry_flashman

[TonyE]

1.22" long by .450 (ish) 465.4 Gns. weight.

Believe it or not, I got it and the other bullet below (what do you think that has been fired from?) for my Birthday last year. I haven't had any time to research either. Although I do know what the big one is.

Probably unfair of me to chip into this one, but I might as well. It is the proj. from a 1" Aiming Rifle (sub-calibre to our US friends). Did that come from the RSAF ranges as well?

My best find on those ranges was a 7.92 x 57 Czech cartridge case from the trials of the ZB53 gun that became the British 7.92mm BESA tank gun. The headstamp is exactly that shown in the ZB53 trial report.

Regards
TonyE

Regards
TonyE

[Son]

I've done a little bit of bullet hunting too. I found a landmark on a mate's property that gave me an idea that there might be projectiles in the gravel bank underneath it. It didn't take much time just picking these up off the ground to half fill a take away food container. These are some of what my girls and I gathered. There were 9mm jacketed projectiles and cases, .303, .455 lead slugs and a few .45 slugs and cases too (don't think there's any in this pic). Some were in surprisingly good condition.

[RJW NZ]

I should remember my own digging too, a mate took me out to Death Valley to Charles Manson's old ranch where he was captured. There was bullets and brass everywhere. I don't remember if they had a shootout with police or not, but they did shoot a lot of tin cans, so , souvanirs aplenty.
Not exactly in the same league as Roarke's Drift ...

[Capt Mil Coll]

Charles Manson Spahn Ranch was where they filmed Western movies. There would be thousands of rounds there.

[RJW NZ]

Charles Manson Spahn Ranch was where they filmed Western movies. There would be thousands of rounds there.

Ok, thats pretty interesting. I've heard of Spahn Ranch but have since not related that name to the death valley property, interesting landscape right around the house, like a Clint Eastwood in the badlands sort of look, I can't imagine anything growing there to call it a farm/ranch. You come at it from the inland side, but the house itself is quite close to the top side of death valley, probably a heck of a view there somewhere.
As for making movies there, talk about remote and near impossible to get to, our 4wd burned out its front hubs going up the canyon. Bloomin good job the law dept did getting manson out of there.