german marked SMLE (real or fake?)

[Peter Laidler]

Just a minute chaps.................... Aren't we getting extremely side tracked here? The point of the thread is the captured and later FTR'd Nazi marked No1 rifle. The simple facts are some think the marks are genuine but can't say for certain why they feel that way. Many others say it's a load of old tosh and say with a degree of certainty why they feel that way

[finloq]

Just a minute chaps.................... Aren't we getting extremely side tracked here? The point of the thread is the captured and later FTR'd Nazi marked No1 rifle. The simple facts are some think the marks are genuine but can't say for certain why they feel that way. Many others say it's a load of old tosh and say with a degree of certainty why they feel that way

"Yes Virginia, there is a Santa Claus."
You are right, Peter.

[bigduke6]

As I,m having a bit of a clearout and taking some pics for another thread, thought I,d put these up from some Mauser parts to compare, stamps on the magazine followers from a CZ and a FN mauser, one thing is clear the numbers are individualy stamped.

[Peter Laidler]

See what you mean Big Duke, but we're talking about a backwards facing eagle thinggy, cack handed swastika whatsit and nazi marks that have remained on a FTR'd rifle during the factory THOROUGH repair system in 1952.

I don't know about the true importance of a swastica symbol in the realms of the nazi era and not being an ardent follower of the royalist cause, I should imagine that it was held in the same sort of 'esteem' as the Coat of Arms or the Crown symbol or, say, the union jack flag. And if that was misused or defaced then people would feel a bit miffed or in England. '.........somewhat peeved!'

[Kev G]

I'm not saying I have never seen a series of numbers made up from individual number punches to make up a numerical sequence.
I was infering that I had never seen a Waffenampt inspectors mark that was used that included the inspectors number made up from individual punches.(prefixed by WaA)
I'm by no means a German markings expert but isn't a waffenampt only a waffenampt if it is marked WaA ?


ATB Kevin

[bearhunter]

Peter, a description of the mark and a diagram, were submitted on one of these pages, by Son, showing the mark, to be legitimate and a police mark. All in line, with legitimising the marks on the OPs rifle. I'm really not an expert on any of this stuff but I've seen things in other countries that would drive us all to distraction. I know better, as do you, than to scream FAKE. There is just to much doumentation and history, behind the seller and the rifle, originally in question. There have been other facts, pointed out, like the type of wood the butt stock was made from, that would have been changed to coach wood during an FTR. Just to many things pointing to the authenticity of the rifle and this thread, hasn't proven anything one way or the other. I will agree to disagree and respect others opinions. I've learned a lot from this thread and there is a lot of knowledge and value here. I've also learned we have become far to suspicious and may have misrepresented, what could easily be a legitmate part of a rifles history, as well as devalued it significantly.

[Claven2]

As I,m having a bit of a clearout and taking some pics for another thread, thought I,d put these up from some Mauser parts to compare, stamps on the magazine followers from a CZ and a FN mauser, one thing is clear the numbers are individualy stamped.

'fraid not mate. Those stamps are NOT WaA inspection numbers, they are SERIAL numbers (the last two digits). Nearly all K98k followers have those until almost the end of the war. If those ones don;t match the rifles they are on, it merely indicates a mismatched part. In the case of the "49" follower, the WaA number looks to be 28. In the case of the "10" follower, the WaA mark is a tine "1" touching the eagle's claws. The other marks are a manufacturing mark and the serial number.

[Claven2]

I'm not saying I have never seen a series of numbers made up from individual number punches to make up a numerical sequence.
I was infering that I had never seen a Waffenampt inspectors mark that was used that included the inspectors number made up from individual punches.(prefixed by WaA)
I'm by no means a German markings expert but isn't a waffenampt only a waffenampt if it is marked WaA ?


ATB Kevin

No, some have just numbers, but they are integral to the stamp.

[Claven2]

by Son, showing the mark, to be legitimate and a police mark.

Please point that post out - I think we all missed any post by Son proving the mark is legitimate??? I saw a post by him saying some police eagles face right, but that is far from proving that mark is real. The swastika is NOT anything but a blurry cackhandled swastika with hand-stamped inspection numbers under it - which seems to not have been used on any other rifle anyone can produce.

Or am I missing something?

Also standing by to see any other example with a Nazi eagle surmounting a capture year.

[bigduke6]

Think I should of said a bit more when i posted the pics, First I have to hold my hand up and and say I dont know anything regarding the WaA stamps/ marks etc, I put the pics up mainly to do with the eagle and to show original stamps (as far as i know).

If we go back to the page 1 of the thread it shows a pic of an eagle on the action, was trying to compare that with the ones I posted.

Peter, can understand your point regarding FTR etc, and would agree that never come from a workshop after FTR with them stamps, the one on the action stands out too proud to have been missed, even if the armourer had had a good skin full the night before.

Am no wiser on the stamps/impressions on the butt this could of been done/changed at anytime. One thing i must say is the Pics Kev G dug up of the Luftwaffe are excellent and wonder what bayonets they would of been issued with?