I think we have to consider the scenario under which such a piece would be used: when one side or the other 'broke through' into the tunnel of the enemy. Such a break through would naturally start as a relatively small hole in the wall of the tunnel, through which one might throw a grenade or shove a hand holding such a cut down rifle. The flash and blast would be mostly confined to the enemy tunnel and would go a long way towards blinding and stunning any enemy within, without the risk of collapse or cave-in that a grenade might cause. A few such rounds would kill or incapacitate any enemy within reach and deter others from entering the tunnel stretch in question until the wall could be broken through enough to admit the attackers.
Seems logical to me.
Last edited by Surpmil; 08-27-2010 at 10:06 AM.
“There are invisible rulers who control the destinies of millions. It is not generally realized to what extent the words and actions of our most influential public men are dictated by shrewd persons operating behind the scenes.”
Or they'd just use a pistol..............! I'm sure that 6 quick shots with a pistol would be as effective as 1 totally inaccurate wild shot with a sightless rifle, fired pistol fashion. Even a non-infantryman tunneller would know that. The trouble with grenades is that they take a bit of time to go off. I have thrown a few (not in anger I might add) on the grenade range and in the reckless days of being a young soldier, on my girlfriends farm in Huntly while in NZ. But I digress. The time lag between the sharp 'crack' of the detonator and the thump seems like an age.
Nope. I'd be armed with a pistol (or an SMG) in a confined space
I think we have to consider the scenario under which such a piece would be used: when one side or the other 'broke through' into the tunnel of the enemy. Such a break through would naturally start as a relatively small hole in the wall of the tunnel, through which one might throw a grenade or shove a hand holding such a cut down rifle. The flash and blast would be mostly confined to the enemy tunnel and would go a long way towards blinding and stunning any enemy within, without the risk of collapse or cave-in that a grenade might cause. A few such rounds would killing or incapacitat any enemy within reach and deter others from entering the tunnel stretch in question until the wall could be broken through enough to admit the attackers.
Seems logical to me.
Generally, one side or the other knew well in advance about the proximity of enemy mine tunnelling activity - there was a whole system of listening and ambush, quite apart from the business of digging the deep demolition mines. It was rare for a surprise confrontation; usually one side detected the other and placed a camouflet - an explosive charge designed to collapse the enemy tunnel. Prepared tunnels with no audible digging works taking place were guarded with listening posts and sentries with conventional pistols, rifles and even Lewis Guns.
Well that all sounds equally plausible...so what are we to make of these cut downs then?
“There are invisible rulers who control the destinies of millions. It is not generally realized to what extent the words and actions of our most influential public men are dictated by shrewd persons operating behind the scenes.”
My own very personal common sense view, based on my liking of 'the bleedin' obvious, I say It's like most things. Given a hacksaw and a set of gas bottles, then anything is possible.
These things come to light and maybe in the 20's, someone on a forum like this asked about the cut down shortie he found in his dads shed and someone answered that he'd read somewhere and................................. Well, the rest is history - or pure conjecture!
I knew someone who cut an AR15 down to its bare bones just so that he could carefully ship it home to Australia from Vung Tau. The upper and lower body remained intact though!
But my gut feeling is that even in the dire depths of trench and tunnel warfare, a cut down to zilch bolt action rifle would be about as much good as a fish on a bicycle. I'm sure that they understood that as well then as we do now
My gut feeling is that even in the dire depths of trench and tunnel warfare, a cut down to zilch bolt action rifle would be about as much good as a fish on a bicycle.
Mr. Laidler
As an American I'm beginning to wonder how much drinking is going on in British and Commonwealth countries before answering this posting.
Question: Were you drinking Guinness when you made your last posting?
(Or did your wife tell you she didn't need you any more)
Jeeeeeees Ed, there really IS such a thing. I'll have to be more selective with my phrases in the future. I was going to use another phrase I learned in Australia about being '...as much good a ti..s ......., er....... udders on a bull'
All have a nice pleasant, fine and safe Bank Holiday weekend won't you
So from reading the answers to my original post, I would think that such a weapon did exist in small numbers, no doubt modified in the field.
Why you just wouldn't use an issued handgun, as Peter pointed out, I don't know, maybe supply was a problem, but then, weren't handguns only issued to certain ranks ?
In any case, an interesting topic.
(That bloody fish-on-a-bike is haunting me...look at its legs I have to stay off the Bundy !)
So from reading the answers to my original post, I would think that such a weapon did exist in small numbers, no doubt modified in the field.
Why you just wouldn't use an issued handgun, as Peter pointed out, I don't know, maybe supply was a problem, but then, weren't handguns only issued to certain ranks ?
Yup, always in short supply from my reading. Usually pinched off dead 'orficers' but lots of other takers closer to the scene of the action. Tunnellers probably didn't 'get out much'.
“There are invisible rulers who control the destinies of millions. It is not generally realized to what extent the words and actions of our most influential public men are dictated by shrewd persons operating behind the scenes.”
PM
Originally Posted by Surpmil
I have to stay off the Bundy !)
