Condition of Milsurps you prefer ??

[RJR573]

I'd like to start a poll on this subject but dont know how. This should be a fun thread just the same.

I'm curious as to what condition others like their milsurps to be in ?

I like mine to be banged up some as to show they have actually seen combat. To me the imperfections tell the gun's history.

Also curious if other's shoot their milsurps or just like to collect / look at them ?

I shoot every one of mine regularly.

Lets go !!

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[Midmichigun]

RJR,
LOL... well, interesting topic.
As a historical context, having a "pristine", trailor queen tells all sorts of things... and there is a place for that.... I aspire to have some of these, and actually do... and these will not be fired.

However, like you... I like the "banged up" feel. It is like a value added bonus on your rifle. If I have a banged up rifle, odds are is that I will keep as found. If the gun is thoroughly fried, I will rebuild back to a certain condition (prefer shootable or beyond).

My favorite examples are my 1871Beaumonts. I got them as barreled receivers. I have made new stocks, and bought bolts for them...etc... etc... another is my 1903. Its little more than a collection of parts (as some have noted) and a place to go from. On the reverse, I have a Jap battle field pickup with bullet holes from Okinawa. I will NOT restore that rifle, as the historical context will be lost with any attempted restoration.
I am also partial to "trench art". If I find a stock with words (painted or carved) I will do my upmost to insure the integrity of this..... some experts say that the painted stocks with cartouches or writing bring little additional value... however, as a person who feels that all artifacts must be placed in a context to understand them, I feel that stocks with cartouches bring more value... to a certain point...
Probably my most sad story, is hearing about a certain collector who found "soft goods" attached to a certain rifle. He purchased the items, but not the rifle. He stripped the items to put onto his rifle. Assuming the goods were original to the rifle, the historical context of both have been cheapened or lost. JMHO!
I prefer to shoot my rifle, but I also weigh out the: history, condition and cost of firing the ammo.

[jdmcomp]

I have a hard time agreeing with someone like Bruce Canfield who seems only to collect arms that have never been handled nor fired. Military arms that have never been used or fired are just worthless surplus having never earned the right to exist. I want guns that have "been there and done that" with at least firing condition being important. I clean only to the point of getting dirt and rust off the gun, but not more. With respect to many older guns, I simply purchase replicas to shoot and leave the originals alone. I would prefer no import marks but I simply cannot (will not) afford that luxury.

I do admit I once bought a comerative set of civil war pistols that gave me fits in that I could not handle them much less shoot them. After a year of protecting the cased guns for any and all injury I sold them to a friend at the cost just to be shut of them. Never again.

[chuckchili]

+1 for the "been there done that" look. I wonder if that is what I tricked my mind into thinking because I generally can't afford pristine examples. For now, when I am shopping I look for dings, dents, worn finish, ect- signs of use. I think those weapons have more character and is a major draw for me. Don't get me wrong, I really like to see pictures of perfect examples too but thye're just not for me right now.

As far as shooting, I have some rifles and bullets- I just need the time! I wouldn't hesitate to shoot any of the milsurps I own. I look forward to when I get the chance.

[Patrick Chadwick]

Rifles are tools. Tools are to be used (even if not quite for the original purpose). Vist a woodworker or saddler's workshop. Old wood chisels and planes still in use will have well-worn handles - but clean, sharp edges.

So all my rifles are shooters, even competition shooters. Rust and crud are not "patina" or "part of its history" but something that the original owner, in his day, would also have removed to keep his weapon in order. But dings? They are part of the historical artefact, and do not affect the shooting capability. So I remove fossilized grease and grime, clean the barrel - whatever is needed to make it or restore it to a good shooter.

But the dings stay. On one of my very first rifles I did the full performance - wood steamed to remove dents, all metal reblued etc. The result was a hundred year old rifle in ex-works condition - and it looked slightly faked to my eyes. Never again.

Military arms that have never been used or fired are just worthless surplus having never earned the right to exist.

Not my words, but I understand the feeling. The most extreme case is those sad mummified rifles whose owners proudly keep them in the factory wrapping, like still-born embryos.

Others will disagree - let's hear from them, that's part of the fun!

Patrick

[bouletbill]

Horses for courses ... I wish I could afford one of those pristine unissued pieces , but could never be used . Then I wish I had one of those old gnarled war-horses with generations of provenance engraved and stamped all over it , but I couldn't shoot it to death . So I have to say ... a bit old , a bit of history on it , but still good enough to fight again .

[rich v]

definately should have 'character scars' i have a combined eleven WW1 & WW11 rifles from various countries and they all have those very special scars, i have a beautiful K98 that is a bringback and the letters H H are crudely cut into the wrist of the stock that looks to have been made with a pocket knife. i could easely sand them off but i never even considered it.

[chainsaw]

If a combat vet,a gun that looks to have been drug down a gravel road is,in my opinion,the best way to be.The stories it could tell.....

[jjjxlr8]

I'm also partial to the examples with honest wear from actual use. It forces you to recognize the history of the rifle and think about what it's been through.

I've never been very interested in the Lee-Enfield rifles until I found this example at a local gun store. It was the well used condition and the amazing patina on the rifle that made me take a closer look at it and ultimately take it home.

These pictures don't do it justice but you get the idea...

[bearhunter]

This is good thread. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Like most that have replied, I prefer my milsurps used but not abused. That doesn't mean I don't have any pristine examples though. Some of the new in grease, unissued specimens, are things of beauty. Wonderfully finished, in some incredibly figured wood and with perfect bluing. Excellent examples of the workmanship of their day.
IMHO, preserving these examples, is just as important as the well used specimens. They most definitely have a place in any collection. After all, they represent an attitude of a long gone past and reflect the mind set back then. That is just as important as remembering the men and women that carried them under stressful and rugged conditions. They may not be steeped in the same sort of history but it makes people wonder what could happen to turn a lovingly produced work of art into a battle scarred relic. They have an honest place in any collection.

Now, I have a few favorite milsurps in my safes. One is a beat up, "Been there, done that" M91/30 MN, original sniper. The scope was replaced (original), for whatever reason and the stock is covered in dents with only an oily finish left on it. The only place there is any blue left on the steel, is under the stock line. The bore on the other hand is perfect and the old girl still shoots well. It really doesn't care what you shoot in it either. Brass cased, steel cased, match grade, commercial or milsurp. It shoots all acceptably well enough that it would still be considered a nasty threat at ranges out to 500m, no problem. It does of course have a preference for specific hand loads.

My next favorite, is a Savage No4 MkI*, it has always been a great performer, albeit not spectacular. Next is a very predictable Long Branch No4 MkI* made in 1950. The list goes on, to include a couple of Mausers and a very respectable French 1907/15 carbine with 3 shot clips, that supposedly saw service with the Turkish Forest Service. It is uncannily accurate.

What can we say about our favorite milsurps. Each one has a special charm all its own, just like most women. There are days when it's hard to pick which is the most alluring.