Want to Get Into a MilSurp...Need Help Deciding.

[Nalapombu]

Hey all,
This is my first post here and it looks like I can learn a lot.

I have always been interested in Milsurp rifles, but have never owned one because I never had access to a range to shoot them. Well last night everything changed. I had my nephew at the range with my AK letting him have some fun and the guy next to me pulls out a K-31 and I thought it was awesome. We chatted a bit about it and on the way home I decided that now that I have a place to shoot one, I need to figure out what would be a good one to get and pick one up.

Here is what I am looking for. Something that would be fun to shoot out to 300 yards where I don't have to worry if every hole in the target is touching and groups size and that stuff that modern guys get hung up on. Also I would prefer being able to shoot lower cost ammo. That's about all I can think of.

Of course I would LOVE to have a Garand or an 03 Springfield, but those are out of my price range. Then I thought about getting an "enemy at the gates" rifle and thought it would be a lot of fun. Naturally I would have to use a mauser clone instead of an actual German mauser 98k sniper rifle. There's always the Mosins too, but those are not really on the top of my "desire" list if you know what I mean. Then last night someone told me about something else that I had forgotten about....the 1917 Enfield. I checked it out and it's a really nice looking rifle and I have read a lot of great things about them over the years. I could really see myself shooting one of these with my nephew.

I go to check GunBroker just to see what's out there and how much they are and boy did I get an eye opening. There were all kinds of Enfields in various states of completion, customization and so on. I have no idea on what serial number range to look for, how to make sure I am getting a shooter or end uo with a wall hanger and so on. If someone walked up to my door right now and had one in his hands and was asking $100 for it, I wouldn't know how to tell if it would be suitable for repeated range use or not.

Then I see these Enfields that have been "sporterized" years ago and wonder whether one of these would be best and then have it put back to near original condition.

Can you all help me here in knowing what to look for? I don't want to end up with someone else's headaches. I want something I can take out to the range with my nephew, shoot for a few hours, come home, clean it up and repeat in a couple of weeks. So if you don't mind, please help me figure out what Enfield Rifles to look for or possibly buy and what a good deal would be on one.

Also if you have any other suggestions for a "fun" range rifle, I'd certainly like to hear them.

Thanks for your time.

Nalajr

Information

Warning: This is a relatively older thread This discussion is older than 360 days. Some information contained in it may no longer be current.

[coppertales]

What is wrong with Mosin Nagants??? Don't waste your time trying to restore a bubba custom milsurp. There are too many out there in military configuration. What you want to collect depends on how much money you have. The golden age of surplus imports is over with the exception of Mosin Nagant 91/30s which can be had for 100 bucks. Ammo is not as cheap as it once was either. The best place is to hit the gun shows, if there are any in your area. Also, pick up an issue of Shotgun News and see what is out there....chris3

[Nalapombu]

Hey,

Nothing at all wrong with the Mosin rifles, I plan on owning one of those too at some point. They just aren't on the top of my list. The main thing against them is they just don't have that "wow" factor that the others I mentioned have. You know the reaction you have when you walk up to a table at a gun show and see a nice Garand or 02 Springfield. I guess the Mosin just isn't as "sexy" as most others. I'll still get one though.

Nalajr

[Kirk]

I don't know you age or condition of your eyesight but as you grow older, eyesight gets worse. Rifles with rear aperture sights like the 1917, 1903A3 & Garand will let you shoot better, longer. Unless you are on a very restricted budget, don't let price deter you. If going on price alone, get a Mosin Nagant. Rifles regularly go for less than $100 & ammo is cheap as well (all the surplus ammo has corrosive primers so immediate cleaning is a must). If not on a restricted budget, start setting aside some cash & save up for what you want. The 1917 has excellent sights but they are not adjustable for windage. The 1903A3 & Garand adjust for both W&E. If you shop around, it's not impossible to find a A3 or a a Garand for $500. The CMP has excellent bargains & the cheapest surplus .30-06 ammo around (excellent quality & non-corrosive). The CMP has Garands now and sometime after the first of the year they will again sell 1917s and 1903s. CMP Sales

Study up on what you want. Be ready to act when you find it - opportunity is fleeting.

[Patrick Chadwick]

Nalapombu,
if you feel strongly that you want an old service rifle for target shooting, but are very unclear about which type to go for, then I recommend that before buying any rifle you purchase the book "Collecting Classic Bolt Action Militray Rifles" By Paul Scarlata. It covers all the types you are likely to come across, and a lot more.

Then:
Join a club where others are shooting old rifles. That way, you can get to try out various types to see if they suit you.

Sights: age and open sights do not go well together. For target shooting, it really is easier to point a Garand, Springfield 03-A3, M1917 or Lee Enfield No4 than any rifle with open sights. Best with open sights are the Swedish Mauser and the Swiss Schmidt-Rubin rifles.
And (surprise, surprise!) that is also roughly the price ranking, although condition variations cause a large overlap.

Ammo: assuming you are living on the West Side of the Great Pond, .30-06 is easier to come by than most others, apart from .308, but there are not so many examples of the types listed above on .308 versions.

Windage adjustment - I don't want to get to involved for a beginner, but if your main activities are going to be in the 100 yard region, with occasional 300 yard outings, then you can live very well without it.

Summarizing: get the book, join the club, try out various types - THEN you can make an informed choice!

Patrick

[bigduke6]

Nalapombu,

The worlds your oyster when it comes to milsurp rifles, you have stated a few good rifles already, I,m an Enfield man myself (SMLE,s ) but do have a soft spot for the M1903 I have two, a Rock Island arsnal and a springfield, if I was in the USA then I would have a lot more of these as the price is a lot cheaper there than the UK, plus if i was there I would have a Garand, and a MI carbine.......

Buying a sporterized example and returning to it original state I would give it a miss untill you know which way you want to go, this can in some cases lead to more expense, nothing worse than buying a stock and fitting it, to find the barrel was reduced by an inch or so.

My advice would be, stick to something that you can get cheap surplus ammo for, then go on from there.

[smellie]

Look at yourself, your own famly. Chances are that your family did not always live on this side of The Great Puddle, which means that you are "ethnic". Of course, we're ALL "ethnic" when you look at it like that, so that could be a Good Thing.

Did you have a GGF in the Austro-Hungarian military? Good field there, very interesting and the rifles aren't all that horridly expensive to get into. You'll be looking at Mannlicher straight-pulls and Werndls.

Any Italian in the background? Vetterlis, Vetterli-Vitalis, Mannlicher-Carcanos, Garands by Breda and Beretta.

Polish? Now we're cooking! What part of Poland? Could be Mausers, Mausers, Mannlichers, Moisins.

British? Gunmaking industry has been ENGLISH since 1746; the Sassenachs say we are not to have firearms! But that gives you the Tower, Enfield, BSA, London Small Arms, Standard, National and so forth, not to mention the Enfield revolvers made by Albion Motors in Glasgie.

Pick something and get a good barrel. Load your own ammunition; it cuts the price by a half, even on the common calibres. For the really strange stuff it's even better. I can pay $4 a shot for .43 Mauser or I can reload my old brass for a little over a dime. Ammo is $3 a shot for my Carcanos, but I can handload the stuff for about 65 cents. And that's match-grade ammo, too: none of this foolin' around with the leftovers from Stalingrad.

For 300-yard shooting, almost ANY of the military rifles can be made to perform adequately, just so long as you aren't trying to put them all on the same dime. Peacetime standard for most military rifles was about 2 MOA with a brand-new rifle. In wartime, this standard generally was relaxed a bit. That is STILL hits, one after the other, on a gallon plastic milk bottle (filled with water, of course) at 300. At 100, you will put them all on the same postcard.

So pick one out that INTERESTS you. Then get back to us here and somebody is sure to know how to get the best out of it. And they will be happy to tell you just exactly how to do this.

Have fun! That's what it's all about!
.

[Adolf Galland]

How about the sks rifle.It's a nice semi-auto carbine.

[easthawk]

Hey,

Nothing at all wrong with the Mosin rifles, I plan on owning one of those too at some point. They just aren't on the top of my list. The main thing against them is they just don't have that "wow" factor that the others I mentioned have. You know the reaction you have when you walk up to a table at a gun show and see a nice Garand or 02 Springfield. I guess the Mosin just isn't as "sexy" as most others. I'll still get one though.

Nalajr

Mosins do not have a "wow" factor because nice, original examples are cheap and easily available. That will change in a couple of decades.

[OCDinNC1]

I bought my first Mosin 91/30 two months ago and LOVE it. I want a few dozen more...