Wanted: Ideas on how to lock the magazine in place

[Kev G]

Pic of MK4 butt -



MK4 butt assemblies and gas shields are still available.
Peter might make a comment regarding that not all L4A3's were fitted with a MKI cocking handle ?

ATB Kevin

[Kev G]

Although I can't see them properly the markings don't look like the markings we recognise. Ours always(?) went

GUNS M/C 7.62m/m L4AX
MG xx GA

with the old markings barred through with two lines

To illustrate -



atb Kevin

[Peter Laidler]

Funny you should mention the cocking handles KG. It's correct that not all of the L4A3 and 5 guns (converted Mk2 and 2/1's) were fitted with the Mk1 type folding cocking handles. The ex Mk2/1's were of course. The parts list for them (more later.....) lists both types of cocking handle and states A/R (as required) next to each. It also has a letter (b) which indicates 'not codified'. From this, it seems as though some guns were fitted and others weren't. This would make sense I suppose as it wasn't a really important feature.

The A3 and 5 parts lists that I knew of in the big REME tech library were in fact Navy BR's (for Naval Books of Reference, similar to the Lanchester parts lists). We had the parts list there because we(the REME) were responsible for the Navy/Marines Bren LMG's. But because there were still Mk2 guns in the system anyway, if one came through with a defective Mk2 cocking handle you could always get another through the Ordnance system.

I don't think Tanikie was talking about the Mk2 gun gas shield on the body KG, but the gas blast shroud fitted to and an integral part the top of the modified bipod sleeve. To be honest, while this shroud of the L4 bipod did dampen the blast of the venting gas, it was useless at its primary role. Because as the gun tipped over to the left, the barrel just battered the thin steel shroud -- which allowed the gun to tip over even more. The old .303" bipod sleeve had a sling loop in the left side of the bipod sleeve which was far better.

If you watched blokes running with the L4 Brens, you could see the bipod swinging about like a bulldogs ba........., er...., testicles and every time the bipod swung to the left, the shroud got a bit more of a battering. How many and how often have you had to straighten them out Tankie and Skippy?

In Australia, our L4 guns didn't have the shrouds on the bipods but just retained the old original .303" sleeve.

Can we have a picture of an L4 and .303" bipod sleeve photo maestro KG? Preferably the left side of both to show how it SHOULD be and how it became

[Kev G]

Yes indeed shroud,I said shield as this is what tankie called it Anyway the shrouds are still available.
Although it does have a MK2 gas shield on it rather than the MK3 Bren/L4 gas shield/deflector on the body.
Will do some pics in a bit.

ATB Kevin

[Peter Laidler]

I'm suprised that the shroud is still available because it was never available as a separate part to us. The old bipod sleeves were machined down and the unfinished (but nearly finished.....) shroud was pressed on and brazed in place, then punched into shape while fitted.

Incidentally, it is this shroud that was responsible for a lot of damage to the big old L1 IIW night sight (the old late 70's Rank Pullin SS20 sight that went on the GPMG, LMG, L1A1 and Carl Gustav). The heavy night sight would lean over to the left under its own weight and if the bipod sleeve shroud was just a bit battered, , the gun would tip a bit tooooo far, past its PoB and over it'd go and crack the IIW OG lens. And at £200 a throw, it was zzzzing expensive.

I had a hand in this project but a modified GPMG bipod was 'adopted'. Mind you, the heavy sight would topple an L4 fitted with a Bren bipod sleeve but only if you pushed it first. It's all history now. In years and years to come, when this is all remote history, someone will be reading this and realise why some Brens are marked L4A8 and 9

[Kev G]

Was the L4A8 (with GPMG legs ) more stable than the L1A1 with the GPMG legs fitted ?

While the subject of sights has been brought up (appologies in breaking into the thread) any idea how the MG3 AA sight was attached to the body in the pic below ?Unfortunatly the pic showing the fixed side is very poor.



ATB Kevin

[tankhunter]

Yes, when I said 'Shield' That was what I meant by shroud! You are quite correct. I have never seen shrouds available on thier own. They are USUALY seen as part of the assembly of a Bipod head & obvioulsy integral. I should imagine they were available at Field Wksp level for replacement by Brazing & subsequent rustproofing & painting. I have as Peter stated, Straightened out 'Quite a few' in Service!
As an Important point of interest. ANOTHER Feature of the shroud was to reduce the flame flash around the gas cylinder periphial holes. This reduced the 'Enemy' from getting too much of idea of where the Gunner may be sited. Obviously, they would see the Muzzle flash from the front end of the Flash Hider/Eliminator. But the F/E on the L4, the same as the SLR Rifle. did NOT completely 'Eliminate' that flash. This is confirmed in a lot of amendments in user handbooks where the term Flash 'Eliminator' is barred out. And the word 'Hider' inserted. Also, SOME of the exhausted gases were vented away & back towards the rear of the gun. If they had gone downwards, as SOME did on the Bren. It may well cause a small dust cloud to be thrown up & add to the difficulty of showing the gunners position as well. In reality, it was a small amount when this happend. BUT, every little helps as they say! & this was also a benifit of having a shroud fitted to the bipod head. As I undertand it, the L4A9 was developed by the simple addition of an IWS Bracket to the LHS as Peter has mentioned. This was originaly for the usage in the then Northern ireland troubles. Some sections carried LMGs when out on countryside patrols. & also set up in cover on VCPs (Vehicle Check Points) for nightime usage. For the possible event of an IRA vehicle running through the VCP after spraying the sited troops with fire! Also, it gave a patrol the facility to lay down heavy covering fire to enable the rest of the Riflemen in it. To execute a pincer movement on the perpetrator/s who had attempted to Ambush the Patrol. Amendment: Since I posted this info, A check of the relevant E.M.E.R has revealed that the Gas 'Shield' is correctly termed 'Cowel'!

[beetle]

Hello Gentlemen!

Just wanted to thank everyone again for their help on ideas to lock the magazine in place. I'll be picking up my California legal Bren later today! so excited Of course pics will be posted.

[tankhunter]

Hello Gentlemen!

Just wanted to thank everyone again for their help on ideas to lock the magazine in place. I'll be picking up my California legal Bren later today! so excited Of course pics will be posted.

Yes Beetle, It would be very nice to see some pics. ESPECIALY some of the internal parts to see how differ from Normal Issue ones! (The firing Mech Conversion)

[beetle]

ok just a couple of quick shots until I can take some more detailed pics. I need to learn how to disassemble the gun before I can get shots of firing mechanism.






with little brother (No4 MkI)


and what we ended up doing for the magazine lock.



Anyone have pointers on bren disassembly?