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It raises the question that among the collecting fraternity, are these Enforcers, with a pedigree (or lack of, depending on your point of view....) like that, real enforcers or just, er................ what's the word I'm looking for............... But you get my drift. Something akin to having a Ford Mustang assembled from bits by a garage. Maybe that's a bit unkind but you know where I'm coming from.
I feel myself digging a hole here so I'd better quit!
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02-06-2011 10:58 AM
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It raises the question that among the collecting fraternity, are these Enforcers, with a pedigree (or lack of, depending on your point of view....) like that, real enforcers or just, er................ what's the word I'm looking for............... But you get my drift. Something akin to having a Ford Mustang assembled from bits by a garage. Maybe that's a bit unkind but you know where I'm coming from.
I feel myself digging a hole here so I'd better quit!
Theres usually an obvious difference between a genuine factory rifle and something thats been assembled elsewhere - not least because a factory rifle has of course been through a rigorous inspection process. Given that there is also a blurring between "elsewhere assembled" Enforcers and a series of reasonably accurate fakes that are also in circulation, I'd never advise anyone to pay the full premium price unless its a 100% genuine example. Better to spend about 15% of the price on an identical-yet-gunsmith-built Enforcer clone, and save the 85% balance for a nice specimen of something else (e.g. you can get a decent No1 MkV and still have change for another old smellie...).
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Legacy Member
Originally Posted by
Thunderbox
Given that there is also a blurring between "elsewhere assembled" Enforcers and a series of reasonably accurate fakes that are also in circulation, I'd never advise anyone to pay the full premium price unless its a 100% genuine example.
So what enforcer fakes have people seen on the market then? Have they been really obvious or only fakes to a select few?
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Ron,
IIRC all of the barrelled actions we saw had the later chordally rifled barrels with the step in the middle. It's a long time ago now but I can't remember seeing any early mfr 'snake skin' barrels. The unserviceable receiver which I unbreeched for the tube & which I mentioned above, is no 674 & is dated '80.
ATB
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Roger. Thanks for the quick response. The two I've seen have the stepped barrel and has been lathe turned. I'm very interested in acquiring one of these and would trade a "Snake Skin" hammer forged barrel or buy outright. Thanks, Ron
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Originally Posted by
Thunderbox
Theres usually an obvious difference between a genuine factory rifle and something thats been assembled elsewhere - not least because a factory rifle has of course been through a rigorous inspection process. Given that there is also a blurring between "elsewhere assembled" Enforcers and a series of reasonably accurate fakes that are also in circulation, I'd never advise anyone to pay the full premium price unless its a 100% genuine example. Better to spend about 15% of the price on an identical-yet-gunsmith-built Enforcer clone, and save the 85% balance for a nice specimen of something else (e.g. you can get a decent No1 MkV and still have change for another old smellie...).
I,ll have all the No1 Mk V,s please.
If its any use, when I was trying to track down the origins of a put together fake by the late Chris barber.
I stumbled upon a lot of info which went off in all tangents, but regarding the Enforcers scopes "Pecar" a lot of these were purchased by a guy in Scotland. (either it was complete scopes or parts am not sure, even the Scotland part I am going by memory, which is not that good these days)
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Legacy Member
An interesting question, and one that we had in a philosophy class in college some time ago. If a ship were rebuilt one piece at a time, and later, a ship was constructed of the "old" materials, would it be the original ship?
In my mind, only the 1-767 rifles are original. All others are built up from spares, by 'smiths that didn't get paid by Enfield. While the built ups by someone are in a better class than a clone, it's still not original. Like Peter said, it's like building a Shelby Cobra in the garage. It may be expensive, and may run like a scalded dog, but it's not a Shelby.
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Sadly Ron, all this was some years ago. I took the barrel off the duff receiver & used it on another (L42) restoration project. I think Dave still has his barrel as a spare against future need for one of his L42's. In fact I am always on the look out for these barrels myself, but they've gone all the way from unsaleable to unobtainable over the last ten to fisteen years!
I'm hardly in the market for an Enforcer, although I've bought & sold a few over the years, but concerning the argument over whether to buy a Charnwood assembled one or not: I would suggest it all comes down to the price asked. Granted a 'Charnwood' Enforcer is not an issued rifle, but it is built from genuine parts & so in my view is superior (assuming the assembly job has been done correctly), to an out & out clone. If the seller is asking full house prices then pass it by, but if the price is reasonable........
ATB
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Legacy Member
Ah, that is a good question - what is a reasonable price for an Enforcer? I bought one earlier this year for what I thought was a very reasonable price (I had it confirmed as a police-issued Enforcer) but, even after several months of research, I had no idea how much such a rifle should cost in the US. I ended up selling it to help pay for medical care for my pregnant wife (a new little spinecracker is due any day now, and that is part of the reaon why I'm selling my 1941 Long Branch - eek!). I know that they do not have the same aura about them as military Lee-Enfield sniper rifles (as far as I know, Enforcers have only been used "in action" against the occasional annoyed bovine), but they do have rarity value and have their own place in the Lee-Enfield story. They are also great fun to shoot. I cannot even hazard a guess regarding how much I would pay for a Charnwood Enforcer.
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Was stalling the Motorcycle Museum arms show here in Brum yesterday (I think at the time of posting it is now just about yesterday!), & spoke to both Tony & Rob Hallam re to clarify the Charnwood Enforcer situation. They confirmed that they bought a mixed batch of gear from British
Aerocpace & whilst they couldn't remember exactly how many Enforcers (or major parts thereof) there were in the batch, they were in varying states of assembly; the majority being in barrelled action form. These simply require the addition of the woodwork & furniture, although some were receivers that had not been barrelled up. Sounds as though there was a bit of everything.......unsurprisingly, really.
ATB
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