A carry handle for a "T"!???????

[Brit plumber]

Hi Peter, I don't think thats missing somthings explanation, I think hes asking for evidence to prove the ebay seller is incorrect in his statement that this was for the No.4T, and that it is most definatly for Bren Simulation.

[Missing Something]

Missing something. I can't believe what I'm reading......If that is your explanation, then you are totally wrong I'm afraid to say. This was exactly what the others have said. A training device that was designed by Parker Hale to enable the pre-war militia etc etc to use a rifle as the section 'Bren' Nothing more or less. It was NEVER sanctioned for use on the No4T. In fact, it was never officially sanctioned to be used on anything. It was a commercial undertaking that a small unit could buy if it wished, using an account known as 'the unit private fund'

The reason the handle is over to the left is not to clear the telescope, it's so that the handle will fold........... as it does on the Bren it's supposed to emulate.

How do I know this? Simple. a) I've been doing the job a long long time and b) I asked Parker Hale.

Or have I missed something somewhere..................? But in short, this is nothing to do with No4's or T's

Peter, I am not here to offend or put your vast knowledge in disrepute or even doubt you in the least.... My first post was to show a current auction on Ebay and show what the seller listed in his auction.

As I could not edit my first Post I posted the question as to see if there was any documentation or photos of the Parker-Hale pieces in wartime use. I have read a couple of other posts on different boards stating that the could not find the handle or bipod even listed in any Parker-Hale catalog from the era. For my own information and to prove that the seller was out to lunch I wanted to know if anyone here had any such items (photos, documents) supporting the Bren story.

Anyway.... sorry for the confusion.....just looking for info.....

[Brit plumber]

I'm sure I've seen a line drawing of a SMLE fitted with the kit in front of a line drawing of a Bren Mk1

[Thunderbox]

I'm not convinced these are even wartime devices. As noted, they do not appear in the 1940 or 1945 PH catalogues - which do list other machine gun accessories (such as - .22"RF sub-cal kits for the Vickers!). I wonder if they were produced for cadet forces in the post-war period? It would make more sense that these kits were intended for small cadet units that did not have access to Brens for their section drills. The wartime Home Guard, by contrast, seem to have briefly used wooden MG mock-ups before moving onto Lewis guns and other second-line weapons. By early 1941 the HG are being pictured with Brens again - so there obviously wasn't much of an equipment gap. Would Parkers be producing a fairly useless accessory at a time when they were at capacity manufacturing items of more direct military use? It will be interesting to see if someone can produce a contemporary photo of the kit in use.

[Peter Laidler]

It looked to me as if you were saying that the contraption WAS for a No4T and giving YOUR explanation Missing Something. Please please don't think you'll offend me by correcting me at all but I did ask a visitor at Warminster today to pass comment on it and he too thought it was you saying it. Anyway, not to worry.

When the trials into the updated version of the P-H Cadet L81-A2 rifle were being undertaken here I collared Parker Hale and they looked into it for me. It was PRE war and didn't appear in the catalogues because the war overtook events and, as you can imagine, their need for war production overtook the need for these quaint 'things'. The one I had was slightly better than theirs so I let them swop. If they were POST war, then they'd feature in the catalogues......, surely. But they don't. That's why they're rare.

The UK was awash with Brens after the war and School CCF's (who supplied most of the National Service Officer corps) were quickly supplied with real Brens or indeed had them via the wartime old boy network* so the need for the 'things' didn't rear its head again.
*Old Boy Network. An english term well known to EME Armourers for 'calling in a few favours me old mate........'. Described as '.......similar to Lend Lease but bigger'

[Rumpelhardt]

What would one need a handle on a scoped rifle for anyways. Isn't that what the scope is for?

[Peter Laidler]

I had to chuckle Rumpel................ I like it! But so true to real life, it happens

[enfield303t]

One thing is for sure...it is not worth $1,500.00 the asking price on one site. Would really like to have one but lets get serious on the price no matter how rare they are believed to be.

[ickmann]

For that price, you could call it whatever you want.


..Rare, felt lined, double No.32 scope carrier..... Arctic model (because its felt-lined, duh)

[Peter Laidler]

Somebody ought to send all the notes on this thread on to him. Carrying handle for a No4T................... have you ever heard such horse manure before. The good thing about this particular forum is that nobody minds being told it as it is!