Sneaking in a quick Bren question for Mr Laidler...

[Peter Laidler]

This is one of those imponderables.................. We're not actually looking at the problem as such, but the variables. Give us your views on these Chinese conversions MGMike. Have you seen any/many? They look interesting.

I always remember back to 15 or so years ago when a load of blank ammo was doing the rounds. It was from.............. well, nobody ever could tell but the end of the boxes was marked green white green and some wag suggested that it was Nigeria - or Kenya or, well, anywhere really. But even the best Brens and GPMG's coped to struggle with it most of the time. We thought it was filled with chipatti powder but every so often you'd get one filled with TNT.............

What I'm saying in a very roundabout way is that not all 7.62 x39 is made to NATO spec!

[MGMike]

Peter: I have no experience with the Chinese conversions and have never even examined one closely. But I would note that it was a makeshift conversion, at a time when the Chinese imagined it was worthwhile because they had nothing better. The Bren is too much gun for the 7.62x39mm. The workmanship of such improvisations is always suspect, as is its condition by the time it was mustered out, cut up, and sent to the USA.

Clearly other ammo should be tried, as that is a huge variable. However, if the gun is getting plenty of gas, but it's still not running, it's time to look elsewhere. That's the reason I'd suspect the chamber. I have seen a Czech ZB26 that would not cycle, though it had been successfully test-fired a few months earlier. Closer examination revealed that the test-firing had been with obviously corrosive-primed ammunition --which left a thin haze of red rust in the chamber. That was enough. It slowed down extraction sufficiently that the bolt only half-cycled and re-chambered the swollen fired case, which was then firmly stuck.

Anyway, it's just a thought.

M

[tankhunter]

Clearly other ammo should be tried, as that is a huge variable. However, if the gun is getting plenty of gas, but it's still not running, it's time to look elsewhere. That's the reason I'd suspect the chamber. I have seen a Czech ZB26 that would not cycle, though it had been successfully test-fired a few months earlier. Closer examination revealed that the test-firing had been with obviously corrosive-primed ammunition --which left a thin haze of red rust in the chamber. That was enough. It slowed down extraction sufficiently that the bolt only half-cycled and re-chambered the swollen fired case, which was then firmly stuck.

Anyway, it's just a thought.

Mike. Whatever happened to Pre Firing checks? If that had been done properly, the 'Rusty Chamber' prob would have been picked up & cleaned prior to usage. This is an absolute MUST with ANY Firearm before using it really! Rusty chamber = Hard Extraction. Also resulting in failure to Function!................Naughty User!.....Lol

M[/QUOTE]

[MGMike]

It wasn't my gun.

M

[tankhunter]

It wasn't my gun.

M

.........And you never enquired about the points I mentioned to THAT user before HE fired it?..............Recap: ANY Firearm, ANY user, BEFORE Using (ANY)......
I think that firing session was flawed before it even started then Mike, from what you have told us! If the guy who OWNED the Gun & it was HE who used it without doing a VERY Basic thing like Pre Firing checks.
How would ANYBODY, with respect. Put any credance to the test session if the basics have been ignored. Also, it would cut down on areas of a 'Process of Elimination'!
Also, To MY mind. If it it were ME who had manufactured & sold these items as you say. It was a kit, was each kit fired & function tested to PROVE the set? ..........MMMMM..Smacks a bit of Enthusiastic Amature or non proffessional to me!..............Are you able to Elighten us Mike, Please............

[MGMike]

Tankhunter: I would never presume to enlighten you.

M

[tankhunter]

Tankhunter: I would never presume to enlighten you.

M

Mike, You Humble me Sir! If we are all Honest & have open minds. We can ALL be big enough to be aware that even though we may amass a large amount of knowledge.
There is ALWAYS somthing we can learn! People I have worked & come in contact with have laid the Title 'Expert' upon my shoulders many times. I have been QUICK to point out that I am very knowledgable
in my Field . With gained Expierience & actual hands on events over the years. But I request that they do NOT use the Term 'Expert' towards me. The reason is VERY simple. There will ALWAYS be someone who knows a bit more than yourself. No matter how much you learn over the years. And to that end, the nice (& Interesting) thing about Life is. You NEVER stop learning!..........ALWAYS Keep an open mind!
Peter like myself im SURE. is always happy to educate & share knowledge where possible. My One Main fault (If I may term it that! & I also have MANY!) is that I do NOT Tolerate fools gladly! Peter too has this quality, BUT, is more of a Gentleman than I. And hides his internal displeasure a LOT better than I would!........Ha, Ha!

[jmoore]

I don't think you are reading each other's posts quite closely enough...Seems like small but important points are being missed before replies are made. But if y'all want to go on hatin' on each other, I don't think this is the right place...

[tankhunter]

I don't think you are reading each other's posts quite closely enough...Seems like small but important points are being missed before replies are made. But if y'all want to go on hatin' on each other, I don't think this is the right place...

JM, I dont believe the word Hate has EVER been raised on this forum? & if that is the case, I, for one am not aware of it! (In fact, sadened that that could be thought really!) If you recall, I DID raise a point on a very earler post.As to the fact that in points of opinion & debate. Things CAN & sometimes DO sink to a level that MAY be construed by SOME as critisisem. And I made the Point at the time that I am aware that some Members of Forums do get the Hump. I for one, have NEVER had the intention to upset ANYONE on here. AND, if I have, I appologise for that fact & add that I am UNAWARE of being an Instrument that MAY have done so. IF ANYONE HAS A 'DIFFICULITY' WITH MY POSTS OR ACTUAL EXPIRIENCES. PLEASE DO, LET ME KNOW & I WILL ATTEMPT TO RECTIFY THE SITUATION. I POST FROM ACTUAL HANDS ON EXPIRIENCE IN THE HOPE THAT I MAY SHARE KNOWLEDGE & EXPIRIENCES THAT MY SAVE A MEMBER A POTENTIAL FUTURE HEADACHE OR EXPENSE, OR WORSE! (& I HOPED WITH AN INTERESTING CONTENT!) IF THAT IS NOT WHAT IS WANTED ON THIS FORUM, PLEASE INFORM ME & I WILL WITHDRAW. I ALWAYS LABOURED UNDER THE IMPRESSION THAT KNOWLEDGE IS POWER. IF I AM ABLE TO ASSIST & EXPAND THAT KNOWLEDGE WITH OTHERS. I WOULD HAVE THOUGHT THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN A GOOD THING. PLEASE EXPLAIN IF I AM WRONG?[COLOR="Silver"]

Also: Please Remember, that the written word can look harsher down in print, that a friendly face to face discussion!

[jmoore]

If you will note that MGMike's reference to a problem that developed between firings noted that the "test-firing" previous to the one he merely witnessed had been conducted successfully. The only apparent change was the corrosion in the chamber. Regardless of pre-firing checks or whatever, the problem was the problem- rust, yes? Why attack MGMike after the fact when he may have had NO control over the situation. He may have been merely asked to troubleshoot the source.

"Hatin'" may be strong, but "hasty" isn't.

For his part,MGMike, in the previous thread, jumped in w/o reading the context of the OP, and was off topic a bit from the start. In actual fact, I think Tom-M failed to maintain control of his thread, but it was interesting enough to try and bring back on track, roughly. MGMike also seems to have let the sarcasm get a bit strong.

For my part, I'm at fault sticking my nose in others' business, and so will now bow out.

I just don't want valued members to leave the forum due to interpersonal frictions. Mostly brought on by failing to carefully read what another is trying go convey.

---------- Post added at 02:59 AM ---------- Previous post was at 02:58 AM ----------

"to" not "go"- can't hardly edit in "mobile mode", sorry!