M1 Carbine Rear Sight Issues

[JKL]

I'm looking for some help with a rear sight problem--seems the sight has drifted off to the right side. Looks like the sight base was staked on front and back sides of both the right and left side of the sight, so I don't know how this drift happened. Right now it is stuck fast. I've tried to force it back to the left side with a brass hammer and punch, but I'm not having any luck in moving it and I'm fearful of hurting the receiver if I hit it too hard. Does anyone know if those rear sight tools (like the ones on Fulton Armory) would work on a staked sight? It's a lot of money for one sight fix. Any other thoughts on how to address this issue....tanks for the input. JKL

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[painter777]

If you haven't already, soak it in a light penetrating oil while you figure out your next step.
Might it be wedged a bit crooked ?

I would think a install/removal tool would work.
But it would be nice to find someone who owns one near you to save the $$ from having to buy 1 for a 1 time use.
Hopefully someone near you can offer up the tool.

BTW,
Welcome to the forum.

Good Luck,
Charlie-painter777

[JKL]

Thanks for the input. My thoughts exactly about buying the tool for a one time job. Right now, the sight sits in the dovetail off the right side of the platform. If I turn the windage all the way to the left, I can almost get the sight to the center of the barrel. I think I will try to zero it that way and if I can come close just leave it as is. I am wondering if I may have to remove it totally(take it off to the right and clean it up a bit) before I try to force it back over further to the left. If all else fails, it's off to Fulton Armory once again......

[frankderrico]

JKL, it might also help to know what type sight you are dealing with, flip, adjustable? I would try a hard wood dowl before the brass punch. It also needs to be secured in a padded vice. Give it a good blast with WD 40, then like painter said penetrating oil, let soak. You probably already know, but it goes out from left to right and goes on from right to left. HTH.....Frank

JKL, we must have been typing at the same time. Sounds like you have been to this rodeo before, good luck!

[Dave-In-Maine]

I would take it to a gunsmith. I know that these rifles are fun to monkey around with, but it is worth the probably small amount of money to have it done by a pro.

I speak from experience. My 1943 Underwood shoots quite a bit off at 100 yards. About 1977 or so, my dad (amateur gunsmith) "adjusted" the flip rear sight almost all the way to the left with a drift and hammer. Very carefully, but the sight still bears some marks.

A few years ago I had it re-centered by a local gunsmith that was THRILLED to work on an original carbine. The sight adjustment and re-installing the original barrel band were well worth the $25 it cost me.

[JKL]

Thanks to all who responded...went to the range this morning and after about thirty rounds came to the conclusion that I simply had to move the sight--way way over to the left. Perhaps the heat from firing did some magic to the kroil penatrating oil I had put on the day before, because when I got home I was able to tap the sight off to the right fairly easily. It looks like the sight was staked on the right side top and bottom only. Would it be advisable to very carefully file the rough edge next to the stake mark (on the dovetail, not the sight itself) before returning the sight into the dovetail? It still fits very snugly when I put it back on the way it is now, and I would hate to get it back on to the point it was before and then get stuck again. I have talked to some local gunsmiths and it seems they would just end up doing the same thing I intend to do--when they can get around to it in a couple of weeks. JKL

[painter777]

I have a few of these small 3 sided files that fit under the dovetail nicely. I use these to knock any burrs off the bottom and edges of the dovetails and slightly knock down part of the Punch Style Stake marks on top. I try to just spot file only where the punch marks are located. The metal is soft so becareful to file just a little at a time.
I was recently swapping out a Type III Adj sight for a better condition Type II milled adj sight.
I then used a tip posted by fellow member INLAND 44. Marking some witness marks with pencil when I had it shooting straight with the peep hole and sight base centered. Then later at home lined the sight up with these marks. The sight was real close to being lined up with the original punch marks, but not quite. The sight still had a little movement to it, so I slipped it back off and ever so GENTLY/CAREFULLY/LIGHTLY peened over the edges of the dovetails.
Before peening the edges of the dovetails.. I put a piece of masking tape on top to keep from doing any more marring of the metal finish than I have to.
Now just to be sure it wouldn't come loose, I followed a tip from fellow member INLAND44's past post, I thoroughly Cleaned and De-greased under the sights base,dovetails and the receiver flat between the dovetails (Where the base of your sight sets). I then put a drop or two of Blue Loctite under it, lined it up to the marks I had made and let it dry for a few days. So far after roughly 300-400 rds I have seen no movement. I fired multiple 30rd mags quickly to heat it up and so far have seen no movement at all.

This worked for me, Hoping it will for you.

Here's a link to the post by INLAND44 about his trials setting his rear sight.
BTW, I've seen pictures of his Inland Carbine, It's a beauty......
Lost My Mind At the Range

Let us know how things work out for you.

Regards,
Charlie-painter777

P.S. I see that you know the direction to R and R a rear sight. Just in case you didn't know, when knocking one off... dial the peep hole all the way to the left. When putting it back on... dial the peep hole all the way to the right. This helps to prevent bending in the sides of the sights' side frames. Easy way to remember is- when your banging on it- have the peep moved to that side.

P.S.S. The rule is.... If we give helpful advise.... You have to post pictures of your Carbine

[ChipS]

I wouldn't file anything. Clean the sight dovetail and bridge dovetail with powder solvent and a fine wire brush (or whatever you have) to remove dried gunk and then oil or grease them both well before you start the sight back in. Chuck the receiver square and tight into a vise between two 1/2" thick oak blocks running the full length of the receiver to offer a lot of support and minimize concentrated impulse force when you hit it. I mount my receiver in the vise so the dovetail is centered on the axis of the vise and just a hair above the top face of the jaws. Make sure the sight is not cocked in the dovetail and drift it in with a hardwood dowel like Frank says, lightly at first until it gets properly started. IMO a brass drift can still mar a steel sight and I have drifted really TIGHT sights out and into place with a 2"-3" section of 5/16"-3/8"" straight grained, hardwood dowel. A 1/2" thick block of oak will also work for a drift, at least until you get it started. Use a real hammer, 12-16 oz., and be sure you are aligning the dowel as square as you can with the face of the sight before you hit it so it doesn't bind in the dovetail. If it is an adjustable sight I run the slide all the way to the right to provide additional support (some might not agree) and on any sight I set my drift right down at the bottom of the sight dovetail to minimize bending force on the side wall. If you are worried about your fingers and/or are not real good with a hammer then you might try to drift it all the way in with a 6" x 2" x 1/2" block of oak, but the corners of the block don't hold up too well some of the time and I worry about bending the side wall of the sight. If you keep the sight going in square and your drift lined up properly when you hit it you will get the sight into place. I have never failed to get it done by using the above method. Sorry for the long post - it's easier to do than to say.

[JKL]

Thanks to all of you who responded. I have borrowed a bit from all of your recommendations. Now using an oak dowel as well as a brass punch. Also purchased some small files (flat, triangular,etc) and did some light filing on the stake marks. I can now push the sight about 90% of the way back to the felt where I want to end up. The last 10 % seems to be "a bridge too far", and I'm afraid I might damage the receiver or sight if I hit it too hard. I can live with it the way it is, and after a few days will probably send off to purchase the rear sight installation and removal tool from Fulton Armory. I should have just bought it in the beginning, but then I would have had to find another way to fill up 4 or 5 days. We live and learn I guess. Thanks again for your help. I will submit a few pictures when I get this resolved....JKL

[USGI]

Thanks to all of you who responded. I have borrowed a bit from all of your recommendations. Now using an oak dowel as well as a brass punch. Also purchased some small files (flat, triangular,etc) and did some light filing on the stake marks. I can now push the sight about 90% of the way back to the felt where I want to end up. The last 10 % seems to be "a bridge too far", and I'm afraid I might damage the receiver or sight if I hit it too hard. I can live with it the way it is, and after a few days will probably send off to purchase the rear sight installation and removal tool from Fulton Armory. I should have just bought it in the beginning, but then I would have had to find another way to fill up 4 or 5 days. We live and learn I guess. Thanks again for your help. I will submit a few pictures when I get this resolved....JKL

I'm not sure it would work quite as well, but Nick Dailey has what looks to be the same tool for about $75 shipped. I got one from him a couple of months ago for that. I made him an offer on his eBay auction and he accepted it. - Bob