Lee Enfields and Boat Tailed Bullets

[vintage hunter]

I read quite often that L.E.'s won't perform well with boat tail bullets. Is this a proven fact or is it based on the experiences of a few? I've read through all the old threads in the attempt to find out but so far I've found nothing conclusive. If it is a proven fact is there a known reason why?

Information

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[Parashooter]

Like other rifles, Lee-Enfields can perform well with good boattail bullets dimensioned to fit the throat and barrel. If undersize for either or both, they have a greater propensity to yaw and engrave off-axis, because they have relatively less bearing surface than flat-base bullets of the same weight and a portion of their mass lies aft of bearing. A bullet launched off-axis is unstable and detrimental to accuracy.


The basic idea.

Since some L-E barrels and throats are significantly oversize for commonly-available commercial bullets, yaw is a problem when such projectiles (especially boattails) are used.

[Beerhunter]

I read quite often that L.E.'s won't perform well with boat tail bullets.

I have several L-Es and they all perform perfectly well with boat- tailed bullets. (In fact the PPU 174 gn. work very well indeed.) However if you have a worn barrel then you will have problems.

[tbonesmith]

I shoot .303's all the time with boat tails, as does just about everyone else who reloads FMJ projectiles. They shoot fine. I suppose that flat base bullets might be better when your barrel is worn, but until it's had HEAPS of rounds through it they handle boat tails just fine and dandy.

[Brian Dick]

If the throat has erosion from cordite, there's a good chance that boat tail bullets won't stabilize properly. I learned this with a Vickers MMG when I switched from Mk.7 to Mk.8Z ammo using a good but well used barrel. The Mk.8 was keyholing at 100 yards. A new barrel cured the problem. Many SMLE rifles will have this problem considering the ammo used and length orf service. No.4's probably not so much but there was still allot of cordite loaded ammo in service through WWII so you just have to try and see.

[Peter Laidler]

That's a great comparison there Brian. In fact, I'm going to use your note and figures as an example about bore wear in a lecture early next month. Thanks for that...............

[Brian Dick]

I've met many folks who insist on buying 174 grain Sierra Match Kings and other boat tail bullets to shoot in their well used Lees and the results are usually disappointing. Folks shooting the new ROF(F) Mk.2's and other rifles in exceptional condition are having good success with them. I always tell them to switch to 180 grain Sierra Pro Hunters or comparable flat base bullets from other manufacturers and there's always noticeable improvement in accuracy from average, well used rifles. Remember that the Mk.7 was the specified rifle ammunition and the Mk.8 designed for use in machine guns. I'm guessing the boat tails were preferred for long range fire from the Vickers MMG. A story about their use in Korea comes to mind not to mention all of the Mk.8 I've ever acquired over the years was cased and on Vickers belts.

[bouletbill]

I think you will find that MkVIII boat-tails had a unique feature ... a skirt ring half way up the tail end which lengthened the contact area to keep it stable, there was a name for it but I can't remember. Don't think anything like it is now produced.

[David TS]

I've met many folks who insist on buying 174 grain Sierra Match Kings and other boat tail bullets to shoot in their well used Lees and the results are usually disappointing. Folks shooting the new ROF(F) Mk.2's and other rifles in exceptional condition are having good success with them. I always tell them to switch to 180 grain Sierra Pro Hunters or comparable flat base bullets from other manufacturers and there's always noticeable improvement in accuracy from average, well used rifles. Remember that the Mk.7 was the specified rifle ammunition and the Mk.8 designed for use in machine guns. I'm guessing the boat tails were preferred for long range fire from the Vickers MMG. A story about their use in Korea comes to mind not to mention all of the Mk.8 I've ever acquired over the years was cased and on Vickers belts.

I shot my newly acquired 1954 Faz Mk II for the first time last Saturday.

I know nothing about its past other than the fact it went into store after being built, was sold as surplus to the USA some years ago, bought at auction and repatriated to the UK in the wrap by EFD Rifles last year. They stripped and cleaned it, and then I acquired it.

I haven't shot an Enfield on range (nor any other full bore rifle) for 40 years. I had fitted it with an AJP Twin Zero aperture sight, and hadn't had the chance to zero it before going straight on the 600 yard range after lunch, so it hadn't fired a shot in my hands previously. With my shooting partner spotting for me I adjusted the aperture sight by guesswork as he spotted each shot on the first five shots fired; and with the second 5 shots I had (not in this order) a vbull, bull, inner and two outers!! I stopped fiddling with it after that......

I was using PRVI Partizan 174gn boat tail ammo (cheap and cheerful), so I reckon you can say this works well in a good barrel!

http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/f...g/DSC_0030.jpg

[Beerhunter]

I was using PRVI Partizan 174gn boat tail ammo (cheap and cheerful),

Pray tell where you get it "cheap"