No4 Restricted sights & bayonets lugs removed

[Simon P]

One of the lasted No4s i have taken in has a small tack weld on the rear sight preventing the sights from being elevated more than 300 yds & the bayonet lugs on the barrel have been removed.

Its a No4 Mk2 and all matching.

Does anyone have an idea by who or why this was done?

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[Patrick Chadwick]

This is probably a rifle that was reimported from Germany. There was a ridiculous regulation (now repealed) in a law called the "Kriegswaffenkontrollgesetz" that made it mandatory to remove bayonet lugs (ugh! nasty!) from ex-service rifles that were imported into Germany to gloss over the ineradicable fact that they had once been military weapons. The same piece of bureaucratic nonsense required that sights be limited so that they could not be set above 300 meters. Obviously someone was afraid that wild men were going to take potshots at, say 2000 meters and then charge 2 km with fixed bayonets. It is well-nigh impossible to work out through rational thought what goes through the minds of people who invent such rules. Like you need a licence for a percussion revolver over here - the rulemakers have not yet realized that the last bank robbery using percussion revolvers was back in the days of Billy the Kid.

OK, I'll save the sarcasm. Let's just face up to the dismal truth that such rules are made by busybodies who have no idea what they are taking about. The rifle must have gone through a German importer at some time in its history. The change was made at the time it was imported.

Patrick


P.S. Take a close look at the markings. There should also be an importer's mark and a German civilian proof mark with year code. If you are not sure, simply post pics of any mark that is obviously not a standard Enfield mark, and I will try to identify it for you.

[Frederick303]

Patrick,

A quick question for you on this “bayonet removal / limiting the sights to 300 meters” issue. I am based in the states but over the years have known a number of chaps who were the sons of former WWII Wehrmacht soldaten and some former members of the Axis as well. I have been told that when the armies of Germany dissolved in April~May of 1945, a significant number of soldiers did not turn in their weapons but buried them or otherwise hid them. I was told this most prevalent in the southern sectors where there was more open space and more places where rifles and pistols could be hidden without being under the water table or causing possible death sentences for those on whose land the weapons might be found. All the stories I heard of this were from Ostmark, Bayen, the only north German account being in the Harz Mountains (where the 11th army sort of dissolved). Being in Germany have you heard of any such stories in Brandenburg or anywhere else you might have traveled?

Second when I asked about the milled off bayonet lugs and blocked 300 M sights on Kar98K rifles. What I was told was that this was imposed on the Germans by the allies between 1954 and 1958. Supposedly when the Germans were first allowed to own weapons again in 1954~1955 only sporting arms were allowed. When the Germans started pulling out the hidden Kar98K rifles, the solution was to allow them to keep them if the lugs were removed and the sights pinned to 300 meters max. Does that sound correct? I do seem to recall reading something that might relate to this in the 1958 arms act, which does make ownership of hunting arms rather easy if one has a hunting license.

Lastly a question on the numbers of Kar98K rifles in close to original condition in Germany. Here what I have heard is rather complex to convey as a single abstraction, but I will attempt it. I was told by more than few fellows who were former members of the Wehrmacht that there was sort of a dichotomy in attitudes of the former solders. There were many who at the end of the war, having gone through the horror of it all wanted nothing to do with any sort of past association with the former war weapons. There was also a group that after the shock of the defeat gradually became nostalgic, (for lack of a better word) at their past service in the 1960s when West Germany was going though its economic miracle. Many of these folks I gather came from the long standing “rifle culture” of Germany. The Kar 98K being the rifle of their youth I was told there are surprising numbers of them in Germany, in original shape in the hands of families with that tradition as well as other small arms that would not be authorized. I was also told that prior to the 1974 arms control act, that the regulations and registration of rifles was not that tight, in many states the initial purchase records were not maintained so in fact there was a registration requirement in the 1974 arms control act. This was widely ignored, most especially with numbers of former military rifles that might not be in quite legal format (no pinned sights and with full bayonet lugs). Does this sound correct? Can you elaborate on this and the attitudes of the 1940s through 1970s generation and the degree to which the former solders had a fondness for the Kar98K? Just curious how it is seen back in the old country.

Thanks in advance

Frederick303

[limpetmine]

Hah, to keep hunters from using "the beaten zone" against the deer! Laughable.

[Simon P]

P.S. Take a close look at the markings. There should also be an importer's mark and a German civilian proof mark with year code. If you are not sure, simply post pics of any mark that is obviously not a standard Enfield mark, and I will try to identify it for you.

Patrick

These are the only marks i am not sure of. One is on the fore-end near the muzzle, the second looks like a twin "W" which is on the muzzle end of the barrel.
Action is marked "England" and the rest is standard UK proof marks.

Attachment 26377Attachment 26378Attachment 26379

[Peter Laidler]

You think your rules are beyond imagination Pat......... According to the ludicrous interpretation of the rules of proof in the UK recently, if you removed the bayonet lugs here, it'd have to go back for re-proof. No, I don't understand it all either!