Originality. A few home truths

[Peter Laidler]

I’m sure that my views as an Armourer regarding ‘all original’ rifle are well known. I heard a good comment on this very forum the other day, that something can only be original ONCE…….. therafter, it ain’t. On that basis, anything that passed through an Armourers shop isn’t(?) original anymore. That’s because by definition, it only came through our hands because reportedly there was something wrong with it – and we fixed it!

The question of what is or what isn’t original parts is also a thorny question. All BSA, all Maltby or all Fazakerley………….. what a load of old cobblers…… What I’m going to say about the parts might not be what others say or tell you. And that’s true. But what I am going to tell you is what I learned during my research into the Sten gun and the two guns were similar in the logistics of assembly. Both were assembled at main assembly points but the component parts were made across the whole of the Country.

Hundreds of small machine and press shops made the various parts but while there was a master drawing that set the standard and criteria, these individual parts manufacturers were quite at liberty to obtain a ‘relaxation in standards’. The main reason allowed was so that they might make best use of their manufacturing processes or materials or take advantage of materials in stock. So, as an imaginary example off the top of my head…. If Acme Works at Balham had several rolls of steel tape in stock that was, say .012” too narrow across its depth for use as upper bands they could ask for a relaxation in standards. The matter would be investigated and approved under a ‘permitting order’. The same would apply to another Company with a similar predicament but the steel tape might be, for example, too thick. This time, same sequence of events but the permitting order would be granted subject to ‘….the outside edges being chamfered to eliminate sharp edges’

See what I mean? Next, how the logistics worked. If you want a fuller version, then it’s all detailed in the Sten gun book (and a jolly good read it is – and cheap too…………) but to précis it for today, here goes

As the thousands of parts were punched out, folded and fabricated, they were put into oily sacks and every week or so, the sacks would be collected by a Ministry of Supply contractor (it was usually the same ‘travelling inspector’ who would batch examine/inspect at the same time) and take them to the railway station. There, they all went by rail freight to a central collecting point in the Midlands known as the ‘collecting house’. From there, the factory progress chaser would telephone in with their needs and shortages. Say, Fazakerley might shortly need 1,200 trigger guards for tomorrow. So from the huge depots, thousands of trigger guards made anywhere in the Country would be sent by rail freight to the needy factory. IF they had surplus capacity of sears, then these would be sent to the collecting house and so on. Backsights, bands, trigger guards, axis pins with flat or rounded ends……… They just put on the rifle what they had made, had in stock or had sent to them. The day, month or year mattered not one jot!

The next question is this. Why is everything (well, pretty well everything) marked with the manufacturers name. The reason is that with VAST numbers/quantities being produced – not just small arms either – if a batch made by XYZ were being rejected at the assembly stage, the problems could be easily identified, the manufacturers told to get a grip of quality control and as the parts were generally subject to piece work, that amount could be deducted from their next account that was paid monthly by the Ministry of Supply accounts offices in Lime Street, Liverpool

You can see from this how I have to smile when I read of others who are looking at an all Fazakerley, or Maltby or BSA original. Come a bit closer lads, listen to me……. And repeat after me 100 times. T H E R E I S N O S U C H T H I N G

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[gsimmons]

Thank You, Peter!

[browningautorifle]

Let's see a dispute to that description!

[jmoore]

Possibly true for WWII and earlier rifles. Especially considering No.4 Mk.I(T)s aren't original to the factory. There may be an Enfieldproduced No.4 or two that has all of it's parts (mine doesn't have an Enfield mag). And what of the NIW No.4 Mk.2 mummies? And the "A" suffixed WWII Fazackerlys that keep popping up in unreworked condition?

I reckon there are rare exceptions. -----So I'm a denier! And a contrarian! Otherwise, I'd quit looking for Enfields...

[Peter Laidler]

To be fair JM, I didn't mention the pre war Enfield mades - The UF55's, but how original. If they're still NIW, then who are we to argue? But as for the A suffix Fazakerly's, I'm afraid that they're as mongrel as the rest. A mix of parts from everywhere.................

[Paul S.]

I could never understand the typical - dare I say it, Garand collector's penchant for "all original". They define the word obsessive. I've seen them examine each and every bit on the rifle searching for the "correct" parts drawing numbers. Dare you show them an M-1 that has been in Korean hands and imported back into the USA!

Me? Well, I have SMLEs with BSA and Enfield actions with all manner of bits, usually Lithgow barrels, bands and wood on them, and a No4 MkII with battered furniture (cost me a whopping USD 100!!!). I'm happy to have them. To me, each little nick and dent in the furniture, each scratch, and each part changed during one of its many FTRs - or by some young Digger in a RAEME shop somewhere, is another mile stone, and a reminder of the history that rifle has served through and the men who achieved that history.

[jmoore]

Ah, but the question remains are the mongrel parts that were installed when the rifle was first built? Hope springs eternal. But there ARE clues. Like Garands, one may have a rifle where all the parts would likely be found as built, and then there's the ones that have not only "the right parts all flying in formation" but matching condition to boot. Any signs of rebuild, and it becomes merely "correct". Very small numbers left, indeed! Too many otherwise idle hands post WWII. But impossible?

[muffett.2008]

It's obvious that this is not going to go away, each to his own.
Good on you peter.

[vintage hunter]

There's lots of clues that indicate Bigfoot exists too, I've spent more that the average amount of time in the woods and I ain't never seen his a**.

[jmoore]

There's lots of clues that indicate Bigfoot exists too, I've spent more that the average amount of time in the woods and I ain't never seen his a**.

I'd settle for a DNA sample. Hair, scat, bones, teeth, spit on a chewed up branch. On the other hand, No.4 parts, either loose or assmbled into a working projectile launcher aren't too hard to find. Given that you have 4 million chances in just WWII production alone, there's gotta be some hope a few weren't rendered down higgledy pigledy and put back together as Frankenrifles.