think the values will go up ?

[DaveHH]

The reason that they are popular is that once you have one in your hands and shoot it, you want one. The Army has never made a more handy light and powerful weapon.

The reason that they are $800-1200 is because part swappers are addicted to carbines and can't pass up anything that they perceive as rare. They may be dead wrong or taken to the cleaners by humpers, but they will still whip out that card and buy it. Part swappers are their own worst enemies, and when it reaches the point , which it has, that they find a pig in a poke and suspect it, but still say " I like it anyway", they deserve what they get. Because that pig in a poke will belong to some other poor sucker before too long, at $1200.

[brick26]

Original, non-rebuilt Type 1 carbines will keep going up in prices, maybe nice orig. Type2 also; the hundreds of thousands of rebuilt, parts guns and etc. will not.

[sakorick]

the hundreds of thousands of rebuilt, parts guns and etc. will not.

I respectfully disagree. Depot rebuilds were rebuilt for a reason and will continue to appreciate because they are a piece of American history. In case you haven't noticed, parts are going through the roof as scarce parts dry up, hence parts guns will continue to appreciate and in some cases, faster than complete rifles. Just my $.02 worth. Regards, Rick.

[DaveHH]

Part swappers can't help themselves. The fact that the carbine was updated to improve utility and durability escapes them. It is just a Rockola trigger housing surrounded by junk they don't need. That is why humpers are so successful, they even go to extraordinary steps like actually welding up evidence and refinishing them. They know that the swappers will still bite. When they discover that they've been duped, they don't care, the thrill of the chase is what they are after, not the carbine. A time will come when even a perfectly original carbine will not be worth more because the supply of these scarce guns has been so debased by swappers and restorers that the collecting public doesn't believe that ANYTHING is real. It is like that now as a portion of collectors who don't have an original piece or are not informed enough to really look, simply dismiss than any "Original" carbines exist. This justifies ruining as many guns as they want to make more "restorations" with humped up junk. It is a vicious circle and it will end badly for everyone who collects.

[Johnny Peppers]

A friend just got through restoring a 1957 Chevrolet convertible that he had know about for years, but couldn't buy. It finally came up for sale and my friend bought it. The original engine had been a 270 HP dual quad 283 with column mounted three speed manual. At some time in the past the original engine had been removed and a 350 with 350 Turbo Hydramatic transmission installed. My friend worked for well over a year on the car, and few parts were the original parts, but he restored it to it's original configuration. The 350 engine was much easier to live with than the original temperamental dual quad, but it was back like it was originally built. Although the restoration is probably a better quality than the original build, it won't fool any car collector into thinking it is original. The 350 engine and auto transmission made one owner happy, but only a restoration made the other happy. It just depends on what you like.

As far as prices, they are pulled up from the top rather than pushed up from the bottom. As the original pieces go up in value the rebuilds and restorations will also go up in value, just not as much dollar-wise.

[Rustship]

Amen to that Mr. Peppers. It's all about what makes you Happy!

[firstflabn]

CMP sold over 56,000 carbines, the overwhelming majority of which were mixmasters, over, what, a three year period? Did prices go down with this flood? Didn't seem to. That can only happen in a market where demand exceeds supply. And this happened in a terrible economy. The part of the market that was unwilling or unable to qualify to buy from CMP (plus those who were simply unaware CMP existed) were willing to pay even higher prices at gunshows and on auction sites.

Before parts swapping got a bad name from collectors, it was done out in the open. Look through the ads in the first 10-15 years of Carbine Club newsletters. Virtually every issue has an ad for a restored carbine, oftentimes several. Maybe a change in degree, but not in kind.

[Curt]

I think as long as folks are still allowed to own carbines and
Interest does not decrease prices will increase on all guns and ammo.
Supply and demand, right now demand is high. What I do notice is that there is not as many people with the disposable income for firearms.

[DaveHH]

Restoring a carbine is just a matter of collecting all the right parts. The problem with the exercise is that 99% of the people wouldn't know the right parts if they walked up and stomped on their foot. What a small group of informed people did 25 years ago has no relation to the insane situation today. But it's entertainment.

[Harlan (Deceased)]

I agree completely, Dave I believe only a very small percentage of the people swapping parts lately have done the deep research needed to know exactly which parts would be "Correct" for a given serial number range/date of manufactue. Not even taking into account all the fake parts being installed, there are many parts that were correct from the factory that have now been removed.

It was unbelievable to me when the CMP carbines hit the market that so many first time carbine owners stripped down their first ever M1 carbine when they received it and started looking for parts to replace. They'd hit the forums asking if 'such and such' was 'correct' and take advice from others who didn't have any books either. Many didn't even take their new carbine out to shoot it as it was intended.

I think some of the situation was caused by the phenomenon of our information age. I'm not putting down people because of their interest in carbines - I think we all love carbines or we wouldn't be here talking about them. I just think many people who never owned a carbine before, hit the internet forums (Many even before they got a carbine) and started reading about restoring and got the mistaken impression idea that restoring is all that carbines are about. Some carbines were only taken out of original condition by a couple of parts and educated 'restoring' them back to original can make some sense. Some people have done pro-level restorations and spent more than the final value, but undiscriminating parts swapping has wrecked way too carbines. By far all of the CMP carbines were about as far away from restorable as they could be.

I know I'm a minority, and we all have our opinions, but I appreciate, and don't look down on carbines that went through arsenal hands at all. If they're still in arsenal condition, they're usually in good working condition and they have kept their original Military history. I'm the same way with all military items I collect though - A military restitching repair to web gear, or a faded name stenciled on the back of a 1923 cartridge belt is completely fine with me.

I feel there's a big difference from a carbine in good arsenal condition than one that's been 'restored' in most cases. There's nothing that's worse than seeing a carbine that's obviously been through rebuild (as most have been) and seeing early T-1 sight, band, safety on it. Regardless if the parts are real (most aren't) the carbines seem to have lost their military history and high level of professional military care and maintenance. It's just my opinion, which is just that (opinion) but I feel many carbines have treated too much as toys by some people who didn't have the passion, respect, or interest to study about them and learn their unbelievably rich history.

From what I see now, many new owners did their thing swapping parts, sanding FAT stamps, installing inferior quality Chinese parts of every kind, etc, etc mostly to make them "Look Cool" Many people have already gotten bored with playing and lots of the CMP carbines are already out floating around on the market substantially out of military condition now. These were most likely the last carbines of any quantity to be sold in original military condition. Just a little sad to me.