L39 & L42 Barrels - An open offer to forum members

[muffett.2008]

I wouldn't bother trying to replicate the hammer forged look, if you make it identical to the service barrel, you will not be able to pass it off as a commercial barrel to import.
At least this way you can point to the obvious difference.

[Peter Laidler]

M4C, the indexed breeeching up thread isn't a problem in the L42/39 case because you'd just cut the breeching up flat and extractor way to the position of the thread. There's no foresight block lugs or bayonet lugs to think about.

[Longshaor]

M4Carbine,

To answer your questions:

1. I know where at least one copy of the drawing in question is (in fact they have copies of ALL the 7.62mm Enfield drawings, L8, L39, & L42), I'm just on the wrong side of the Atlantic Ocean to be able to nip over for a look, hence the original terms of my offer. If I could get my tail over to Bisley, I wouldn't have bothered everyone with the request.
2. As it has been explained to me by several people, while here in the States military equipment developed for military use by taxpayer funds is public domain as we, the taxpayers, have all payed into its development, in the UK such things are considered Crown Copyright - which doesn't mean 'Crown' as in the Sovereign directly, but rather Her government. When HM Government privatized Royal Ordinance in the mid-1980s, a large proportion of what had been Crown Copyrighted material which was still in service with HM Forces was transferred as part of that act and became BAe copyright. Beyond that is a little fuzzy to me, I was informed over a year ago by Stuart Ivinson (Assistant Librarian at the Royal Armouries Museum, Leeds) that Nottingham Small Arms Factory, who was the 'direct' copyright holder, had been sold by BAe to Heckler & Koch, though I have had absolutely no luck in eliciting any sort of response from them, so I'm starting to wonder if Peter is right and the info in question is still BAe property.

If anyone who has more recent/direct information about who the copyright holder is, please feel free to chime in and set the record straight!

[Surpmil]

Surpmil, You're correct. New, commercial production barrels are importable. Used, commercial barrels are also importable. All require the previously mentioned invoices and/or documentation. New or used military surplus barrels are not importable under any circumstances except for police or military end users.

Brian

Thanks again Brian. And in cases such as the Enfield hammer-forged barrels which were identical for both civilian and military markets what would be the deciding factor?

Although that may be academic since no paperwork can be obtained from a defunct manufacturer of course.

Is this requirement for paperwork for each item not a change of policy from the previous practice (at least in some areas) of setting a policy in regard to all examples of particular types of equipment once their origin and eligibility as a type is determined?

[Nick S]

To add another snippit of information here - Armalon (London, UK) have the complete Parker Hale barrel hammer forging machinery up and running again. If you can get the drawing, you could have as many new commercial 'real' L42 barrels made as you wanted....

http://www.armalon.com/public/static/page/4

[Peter Laidler]

There's the rub Nick.............. If you can get the drawings - and you can't! The drawings should be simplicity itself to replicate. You are just back engineering a tube. The biggest hurdle you will face in the UK is finding someone with phosphating facilities

[bigduke6]

The biggest hurdle you will face in the UK is finding someone with phosphating facilities

The link Nick s provides, says something regarding " blackening" so I guess they have the facilities to do phosphating or they have another company to do it.

Good luck to Armalon as they would be the only barrel maker in England, but would say it all depends on the price and quality, but in the meantime if anyone does require a barrel blank then let me know as I will ordering soon from Lothar Walther.

[Nick S]

I have an Armalon hammered barrel on an AR15 - quality is very good, and life expectancy should be better than the Border it replaced... It's chemical blacked, rather than phosphated, but having said that I know of at least 2 companies that do phosphating...

[Brian Dick]

Surpmil, Factory invoices have always been required for new manufactured firearms and/or components. There is other documentation required for surplus military or commercial firearms stating where the items were stored for a particular number of years. Barrels manufactured by the RSAF are going to be deemed as military surplus regardless of whether they were marketed commercially or not. I've been down the school of hard knocks on this, (there is no other school that I know of!), and without the required paperwork, it isn't worth the effort of submitting the import license application. I remember when Springfield Sporters had new five groove BSA No.4 barrels for $30 each by the case. I sure wish I had the money to sock in a couple of cases in those days. Brian

[Bruce_in_Oz]

Phosphating is widely used in teh automotive trade as a surface treatment for things like crankshafts and camshafts. As in small arms worl, the idea is to provide a stable crystaline skin on the base metal. Both surfaced basically provide a semi-permeable skin into which oil can penetrate and thus protect the steel.

The actual phosphating is a fairly simple procedure; whack the item in the hot brew and wait for the right colour.... BUT!!!

Like blueing, the preparation is VERY important.

It is also different.

A "proper" phosphating job requires that the steel surface be "activated". The usual procedure is to grit or glass-bead blast the item IMMEDIATELY before immersion in the phosphoric acid bath. What this does is to remove any other oxides that may have started forming, and by distorting the surface, (on a very tiny scale), said surface is still "lively" at a structural level when it hits the bath.

The colour of the finished product can be varied by the choice of metallic additives in the bath: Manganese for black, Zinc for grey.

Temperature can sometimes have an effect: If the item is de-greased and then pre-rinsed in very hot de-mineralised water it will not cause a "blip" in the bath temperature when immersed. Some more exotic alloy steels respond better if the whole bath starts at a lower temperature than normal and is then brought up over a minute or so. On a side note, this trick also works with attempts to blue interesting alloy steels. It avoids the purple and maroon tints occasionally seen. Supplementary side note: VERY lightly bead-blasting hardened exotic alloy steels before blueing, produces a deep, satin-black finish; very nice on small-arms components.

After the item has achieved the desired colour, it is thoroughly rinsed with very hot water and drenched in de-watering fluid. It should then be coated with a medium grade oil whilst warm. If you just let the thing dry off, it will start to rust while you watch.

Setting up for and maintaing a phosphating rig is probably simpler than establishing a blueing plant, but neither are for the casual user. You can do it on a small scale but unless you have lots of stuff that needs doing or lots of friends with interesting projects, it could get expensive.