Question on Long Branch #4 (T)

[Peter Laidler]

Bolt action. To save me saying it all over and over again, please believe me, but in my honest opinion, as a real life, old time, REAL Armourer of just a few years standing, that your rifle is as real and genuine and original as it gets. And, for what it's worth, in my heart of hearts and knowing how the REAL, out there system works, I wouldn't mind betting that many of those 'as they left the factory' rifles you yearn for have been made up to 'as they left the factory' spec. Not all of course but sometimes, I have to have my doubts..........

I wouldn't mind betting that in a few years time, people will be collecting 'as they left the factory' L1A1 rifles with ALL BSA or ALL Enfield made parts. Believe me, I used to see them................., factory fresh, still in the sealed air tight wrappers, a complete mix of BSA, Fazakerley and Enfield parts. I know I'm wasting my time as I repeat it time and time again

Call me sentimental or just mellowing as I get a bit older after having been and seen them all for many years, but I just think that these grand old ladies, especially that classic masterpiece, the No4T deserves more.................. But just reflect on the fact that while I was the snipers Armourer here at Warminster many moons ago and STILL see them coming through, I NEVER heard a sniper (I mean a REAL sniper as opposed to a good shot or just a collector - but the real McCoy.....) ask whether he could be issued with an 'as factory gate issue' sniper rifle. Nope......., they wanted one that the user on the last course had passed the course with.

I think we should leave concourse for car shows. Only my thoughts and I could be wrong

[boltaction]

Thank you! Myself, I don't see a problem with it, and I shouldn't have used the word "problem" in my previous post. I really like the rifle, and it's in really nice shape. It's been a working rifle, and is original as it left service. I'm just concerned with potential "complaints" about it if I drop dead and my wife goes to sell it. Personally, unforeseen financial disaster or hardship necessity in the future notwithstanding, I don't ever plan on selling it and hope to will it to one of my two kids....... If my work life ever allows again, I hope to take it out to the range and test it out. The turrets on the scope turn freely, but there is a bit of corrosion here and there--I am going to send the scope to Warren for a checkover.

I should clarify as well that I don't "yearn" for a "as it left the factory" rifle, although if one showed up at a local garage sale I sure wouldn't complain! I like mint things as much as the next person, but some of my favorite rifles are the ones which have clearly seen service somewhere. I've got a large number of Rosses which were issued and have the knocks of use, and one of my favorite SMLE's is not my mint matched ones, but one which has a nice smooth patina, someone's initials "dinged" into the wood with a bullet nose, and an old scar on the forewood that looks like it got hit with a shell splinter or something. It's like those folks on the eternal search for a mint, all matching early war production or pre-war production Mauser Kar-98k. Those rifles are around (and cost almost as a Brit #4(T) these days), but really, one which was actually carried for several years by a soldier on the losing side of a war is likely going to have had some part switched out, either in the field or at the battalion level. I lke them with a bit of character!

Thanks so much everyone for your feedback. It has been very helpful and educational.

Cheers, and Merry Christmas!

Ed

[boltaction]

BTW, I hope no one is offended by my use of the actual word "Christmas" at this time of year, as opposed to the Canadian currently accepted politically correct, bland, non-denominational, inoffensive and almost meaningless "Season's Greetings" or "Happy Holidays" which is all I seem to be able to find on cards nowadays.........

Ed

[jmoore]

Merry Christmas!

[Roger Payne]

To me this thread highlights the difference between 'original' (as in 'the day it left the factory when assembled), & 'genuine'. It is a perfectly good LB 4T that has been through British service rework post-war, & it is genuine, but it is not in 'original' (as it was first assembled) condition. Does it matter? I guess that depends on the individual. I suppose the market tends to reflect a preference for 'as first issued' rifles, & they do fetch a premium; but then maybe they couldn't tell the tales this one could.

Apart from anything else, the suncorite will come off with meths & LB parts are not so difficult to find, if you did have a mind to 'restore' it.....!

As an aside there were 4-5 90L rifles in the batch we bought back in 1997, so they were all accepted into service with UK forces; some had been suncorited & others not.

ATB

[Peter Laidler]

I lay awake at night wondering, and indeed, fretting as to whether/if we will ever see an 'original' or 'factory fresh' or 'factory gate' L42 advertised in the future - and how would we ever be able to tell? They were actually made (?) converted as a bunch or hotch potch of parts. And if a mix of parts is good enough for an 'original' done-on-the-cheap but deadly accurate L42, then it's good enough for anything in my opinion.

I know I keep banging on about it but if you ever see anyone on your local rifle range shootng/testing an L96 or the AW green stocked variant, please, please. PLEASE ask if you can shoot a few rounds, even if it's just to say that you've done it. They are a well and truly worthy successor to the L42. I love it to bits

[boltaction]

To me this thread highlights the difference between 'original' (as in 'the day it left the factory when assembled), & 'genuine'. It is a perfectly good LB 4T that has been through British service rework post-war, & it is genuine, but it is not in 'original' (as it was first assembled) condition. Does it matter? I guess that depends on the individual. I suppose the market tends to reflect a preference for 'as first issued' rifles, & they do fetch a premium; but then maybe they couldn't tell the tales this one could.

Apart from anything else, the suncorite will come off with meths & LB parts are not so difficult to find, if you did have a mind to 'restore' it.....!

As an aside there were 4-5 90L rifles in the batch we bought back in 1997, so they were all accepted into service with UK forces; some had been suncorited & others not.

ATB

I like your comment about the difference between original and genuine. If a rifle is missing a part I will replace it. However, while this rifle could be "restored" by putting LB wood back on it, LB parts, new buttplate, etc, IMHO that would in itself be a form of "fakery", because one would have to stamp a new serial number on the fore stock, etc, and it would be taking parts off that were put on in the course of the rifle's service, making it neither original nor genuine any more. I plan on leaving the rifle exactly as it is, aside from getting the scope tidied up a bit--it has lovely optics, BTW.

Ed

[Roger Payne]

Ed, I don't blame you!

ATB

[rgg_7]

Interesting comments on original and genuine. Ed's No4 T is genuine and I'd leave as is. The rifle was painted with "Suncorite" and could damage the substrate fiinish if removed. The furniture has been changed for Brit wood...Canadian "T's" had the distinctive "Maltese Cross" on the forend, never were serialized...finding a replacement is dam near impossible. The front band is late Brit. Rear sight is Brit CR403 which makes it post war...again getting a Maltese marked rear LB will be tough and pricey. Mag might be Brit as well...Canadian never serialized. Also notice that the bolt has been reserialized...looks like electropencil..."L" is wrong font and same appears on mag and forestock. I suspect that if you pull the rear handguard the rifle been rebarrelled as rifle has a size 2 bolthead.....most are "0" or "1" on Canadian "T's". Enjoy the rifle, leave it as is.

[PrinzEugen]

Great rifle ed - I'm 100 per cent in agreement with Peter/Roger et al. If I wanted 'new from constructor' rifles I'd buy some horrible new plastic thing. I like military rifles - if they're still 'as left service' then great. But as this is more or less impossible to judge, I'm happy with 'as correct as can be barring obvious fakery/brand new bits'. In any case these guns were produced during one of the greatest conflicts ever seen with the purpose of killing the enemy effectively using the technology/equipment available for mass production at that time. Then they probably continued to serve in the armed forces for another 20 years before being sold off dirt cheap. Then the person who bought the sniper rifle, which certainly would not have been viewed it in general with the awe/reverence of today may well have actually shot it themselves, in the process having worn out bits replaced and so on. So nearly 70 years on now we have what we have. My 4t has had an interesting life - and certainly isn't as left the factory. But thinking about its rich history etc is what makes it so interesting for me.
The internet, with all manner of experts whose knowledge is based on what they've read in forums as opposed to what they've done, are creating this 'all matching' mantra without really, in my view understanding what it means.