Date of commercial BSA Lee Enfield.

[Ridolpho]

Hello: I'm a new member to this forum but a long time collector. I'm slowly building a Lee Enfield collection and have recently purchased a BSA #1 Mk III commercial type (ie. no Royal cipher on right strap). I'd like to know the age of the piece but am having no luck so far with my references. The serial number is 53203 with no letter prefix. Does anyone out there have any idea how to date this gun? Thanks,

Ridolpho

Information

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[Thunderbox]

Generally the BSA commercials are hard to date - BSA used all sorts of number sequences to give some sort of commercial secrecy to their output.

As it happens, you happen to have one of the few "known" batches. BSAs with 5xxxx numbers were a batch made for the Gulf States/Protectorates back in the 1930s - exact year currently unknown. Recently, someone bought all these rifles back from Bahrain and released them to the surplus trade. Your rifle probably has (a) a brass butt disk with a rack number in large font (b) a cut-off (c) a "narrow" pattern front piling swivel (d) dark - almost purple colour - walnut furniture. Most of the rifles ended up with a mismatched bolt (also in the 5xxxx range) as apparently these were delivered separately and not much effort was made to match them up.

IMHO, these are some of the best quality Enfields around: despite the wear they've had, they are nearly all unmodified since they left the BSA factory, and they exhibit the top-class materials, finish and fit typical of an inter-war commercial trade gun.

These two rifles are from the same batch:

[Ridolpho]

You described the rifle perfectly right down to the very dark walnut. Thanks very much for the reply and for including the photos. My bolt handle is a matching number to that on the reciever and barrel although the seller told me he suspected there had been a Birmingham re-fit at some point in it's life. In any case the barrel is in excellent shape and it looks like it will be a good shooter, possibly with a spare "Central" aperture sight installed.

[Thunderbox]

The number on the bolt should look exactly like the number on the receiver, and the bolt should have the same blued finish with no sign of grinding.

These rifles were never rebuilt or refitted in service by the UK trade - all bolt renumbering has been done recently by owners.....

[Beerhunter]

If you remove section of the top handguard to the rear of the back sight, in that area you should find the Birmingham Military Proof marks (Crowned BM & Crossed Sceptres). Within the sceptres will be a date code for when the rifle was Proofed. You may even find a year date applied by BSA.

[Jc5]

If you remove the handguard, I'd love to know which letter is stamped above the scepters.

Also, where else on the rifle is the serial number (or any part of it) stamped?

Finally, is there anything marked on the top-right, flat part of the action where the bolt slides in (underneath the bolt handle)?

Thanks for posting.

[Thunderbox]

This is the "Bahrain BSA" I have currently.

The "BNP" on the receiver ring and the bolthead are the "new" Birmingham proof applied since these rifles came back a few years ago. All of the rest of the marks, including the "BNP" on the barrel, appear to be original.

The initials around the sceptres appear to be (left to right) "H 9 D". Also appearing is the "BM" military view mark and the "R" mark for reproof.




Barrels are numbered, and bear the BSA commercial mark:




Rearsight also matched:




Boltway is blank, less for a tiny military BSA inspection mark on the right lower edge:




Bolts have matching numbers (well, they did have once....) in same font and strike as the receiver. Bolt also has BSA commercial mark:




Bolthead appears to have a BSA military mark on it. Note the very limited overturn! The finish and fit on these rifles is, IMHO, the best of all SMLE production.

[Peter Laidler]

Why do they have to be re-proofed Thunderbox? Is it something to do with re-importation or.........

[Ridolpho]

Excellent feedback- thanks! Checked my notes: the crossed Sceptres have a clear "S" avove them but I could not see a date code as suggested by "Beerhunter". Per jc5's question, the serial number is present on bolt handle, reciever, barrel, and sight. The one on the bolt looks kosher due to the presence of very nice milling marks. I couldn't see anything on the flat below the bolt other than a small "H" at the base of the bolt guide channel. Most of the markings are at the bottom of the barrel reiforce requiring removal of the forend which I didn't have time to do again today. When last I looked I noted the crossed Sceptres, lots of BSA view marks, a strange triangular/ crenulated shape with V & C directly above and right against the reciever the number 23.
Thanks to all for the very helpful comments.

Ridolpho

[Jc5]

Ridolpho,

A few close up pics would be really helpful to my research.

Anyway, if there is an S above the crossed scepters, then it would have been proofed (originally) in 1937-8.