NM barrel from 1953

[GUTS]

I looked at an SA Garand today that has the serial# 5401195. The "normal" barrel date from around that serial# is 6, 7, or 8 of 54. This one has an LMR NM barrel from 1953. I know that many, many barrels were changed on recievers of all serial#s but it is thought that LMR barrels may have been used around this time by SA when they had a problem with their own barrels. There is a known SA rifle with the original barrel with the serial#5292300 and it has an SA NM Type I barrel with a 12/53 date. I haven't seen or heard of a NM LMR barrel from 1953 before, I thought they were all SA. Do you think the barrel is original to the reciever?
On the left side of the barrel towards the front there is an NM stamped into it.
The barrel side markings are: T + LMR D6535448 3 53 A9 P M
The P is about twice as big as the rest of the letters and there are two more large proof Ps
stamped sideways above the line of letters.

Information

Warning: This is a relatively older thread This discussion is older than 360 days. Some information contained in it may no longer be current.

[Joe W]

Did you notice any "year code" on the barrel. Bob Seijas posted them on this forum on another thread This is from Bob's posting :

Annual Marks
1959 = Greek Cross, looks like the block Red Cross symbol
1960 = 4-point star, looks like the stars in the Pittsburgh Steelers logo
1961 = Triangle
1962 = 5-point star, usually part of NM star PT in a row
1963 = 7791036 NM barrel without annual code in the chamber area

Reason I ask is that in Bob's GCA article "The Type 2 National Match Part 2" (Winter 2003 Page 16) he shows a photo of a NM rifle with three annual codes and the barrel is a LMR.
If you go to Bob's thread M1 Garand NM annual codes on barrel you will see this barrel
Also in the another GCA Journal article (Summer 1993) there is a story of a DCM papered NM rifle with a replacement 5 of 52 HRA barrel, which seems to show the annual code for 1962 (5 pointed star).
So some NM rifles are found with barrels other than SA. It was in late 1958 that SA ran out of barrels and most likly used some barrels of other manufacturers. I would suppose that if the rifle was rebuilt in late 1958 and not rebuilt again, it would be without the annual code. If Bob Seijas sees this thread maybe he will give you more information.

[GUTS]

Thanks Joe. The plus sign I have after the T and before the LMR is a cross like the Red Cross symbol(because I couldn't make the symbol with the keyboard) so I guess 1959 qould be correct. Great information.

---------- Post added at 09:37 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:30 PM ----------

Here's a dumb question, because the rifle has the NM barrel from 1959 does that mean it was originally a NM rifle, or is it impossible to tell because no one knows for sure who put the barrel on or when? All the rest of the parts are normal mixed parts and I forgot to look at the front or rear sight more closely. Would there be any special markings on the reciever leg?

[Joe W]

Was this a CMP rifle ?? It may be one of the Greek returns. They went to Greece as NM rifles in 1974 but were used as Greek service rifles. When CMP got them most were no longer in NM condition as, over the years, stocks were switched as well most of the the original NM parts.

[Bob Seijas]

You're right, you can never rule out a barrel change -- I have half a dozen loose NM "Take-offs" -- but the chances are good that it was built or rebuilt with that LMR in 1959.

[EdG]

I have a 4.3M rifle with a NM LMR 3 53 barrel. I've had this rifle since Nov. 1986, purchased at a Raleigh, NC gun show. The TE is 7.
Barrel markings :
T 4-pt. Pittsburg Steelers star LMR D6535448 3 53 A9 P M d (upside down P with square -shaped punch in the loop) ord. wheel

The stock has AN stamped on the left side of the butt. NM with no star is stamped on the left side of the muzzle.
I always figured this was just a plain old rebuild rifle but I also liked to entertain the idea that this could have been an early NM build. The Pittsburg Steelers star probably kills that thought though.

Didn't the M1 NM program begin in 1953 using receivers already in the system as well as new production receivers?
Could this rifle have been a "real" NM?

[Joe W]

The "Pittsburg Steelers" star is a 1960 year code found on NM rifles rebuilt in 1960. The "AN" on the stock is the Anniston Army Depot rebuild mark. Between 1953 and 1958 Type 1 NM rifles were drawn only from new production. In 1959 and later just about any SA receiver was used.
As the 4.3 serial is 1953 or early 1954, it may or may not have been on a NM rifle originally. It could also have been built in 1959 or 60 using a reclaimed receiver. In either case, it went through it's final upgrade in 1960. The problem that I see is with the stock. A NM rifle upgraded in 1960 would have a glass bedded stock and would not have an Anniston rebuild mark. It should also have other indicators of a 1960 build such as: Gas Cylinder marked NM on underside of Tang, front sight marked NM over 62, rear sight base marked NM, Windage KNob marked NM, Aperture marked NM over 595 on shank, and the barrel marked as you described (NM between rings of Gas Cylinder). The "star" next to the NM inscription on the front of the barrel was only used during 1957.

[EdG]

Thanks, Joe W.
My take has really been that this rifle is probably nothing more than a run-of-the-mill rebuild. Some previous owner, instead of the military, could have put that barrel on it.
I acquired this rifle only to have a "clunker" to tear down and learn how to strip. I knew little about Garand functioning and, of course, no National Guard members of that time in my town could help me as none had ever seen a Garand.
I used to shoot it at the Garand clinic twice a year in Butner, NC. I'm a plinker, not a serious shooter, so it did fine by me even with that 7 TE.

At the time I purchased this rifle, the AN code was still somewhat a mystery as it wasn't showing up on any of the published lists of codes of rebuild facilities. I believe it was Bruce Canfield who identified AN as Anniston.

[Joe W]

I attempted to edit my original reply by addig the following but as 60 minutes had expired I was not allowed to edit. Wonder why that is ???

I suppose the worst case would be that the barrel was on a Type 2 NM rifle but, as far as a match barrel, it was "shot out" (TE of 7). The original owner replaced it and sold or gave away your LMR barrel. It was then installed on your 4.3 receiver. Really hard to tell the true story without any documentation.

[Joe W]

Thanks, Joe W.
. Some previous owner, instead of the military, could have put that barrel on it.
.

After I gave it a bit more thought that was my conclusion also, but as you said that you liked to "entertain the idea it may have been an early NM build", I, at first, decided to let it go like that, as you will never really know for sure without documentation. Then when I decided to include my final thought I couldn't as I was timed out.