HXP Ammunition From CMP

[HILLBILLY-06]

HXP77 was issued by the CMP at Camp Perry a few years ago. Many M1903 shooters, including me, reported bolts were difficult to open. The ammo did not seem to be too hot, just caused the bolts to be difficult to open, a bad thing during rapid fire strings.

I've seen a very similar problem at the range where I shoot. When we examined the Ammo and compared it to some that was working fine, we found that the case rim area, Extractor groove, was a lot thinner on the ones that caused that problem. You didn't need a magnifier to see it either, it was plain as day. They stopped shooting it the garands, and sold it to a couple of guys down there that were shooting 1903 Springfields. It seemed to work well for them all day long. So there must have been a reason for that. I can't recall what they finally said about it, just that the 1903 guys were glad to get it.

[Mike in Wis.]

Like the others, I've used hundreds of HXP ... mostly 67/68 dated... in my Garands without any issues.

[Jason60chev]

I have about 13,000 rounds of CMP Greek HXP at home and have been shooting it in 1903's and M1's for some time without incident. Have been saving the brass, too, with the intention to eventualy reload. I fired some American Eagle 30-06 ($25/box!) which the box showed as being loaded for the M1. With that ammo, at 1000 and 50 clicks up, I was all around an 18" steel plate, with a Win 1,277,XXX rifle with 12/49 SA barrel measuring 2 MW. I also bought a no name brand from Cheaper Than dirt....New made ammo stated for the M1. That ammo, atthe same 1000 yards, required an additional 5 clicks up. Bothe the No Name and American Eagle functioned without flaw.

[HILLBILLY-06]

Extractor groove, was a lot thinner on the ones that caused that problem.

Is it possible the ammo could have been older than stated? I had some old I think Pre WWII 30-06 that had a smaller extractor groove in it, unknown manufacture, It was just part of a colection of old stuff I had. I didn't save it, I thought I did, but cant find it to identify head stamps. If I can possibly run accross it again, I'll be sure to post it on here so we can see it, I must have misplaced it when we had our new harwood floors put in. I had to move to much stuff around, and have thus misplaced lots of things. It would be interesting to show you, and compare the known stuff that we all have.

[HILLBILLY-06]

I THINK I FIGURED IT OUT... I have one LC 69 headstamp 30-06 cartridge. I Know that this round was for the M60 Machine gun. It is different than the other M1 garand Ammo I was talking about before, although I can't find my older ammo, this is an example of a different ectractor groove. It is Half as big as the HXP ammo that I have, and my AM90.

[Amsdorf]

I just brought home two huge boxes of HXP ammo, in spam cans, clipped and on absolutely mint condition bandos, on mint condition clips, for 45 cents a round, nearly 2,000 rounds.

I'm a happy camper.

Brothers, rejoice with me.

[HILLBILLY-06]

If some of the ammo the CMP sells us for our garands is machine gun pull offs, maybe there's another type of discussion to take into account. I have seen different extractor grooves on some cases. I also remember reading somewhere, that when I was getting ammo for my AR-15, not to use the delinked S.A.W. ammo for it. Would something similar apply to .308/.30-06 as well?
I believe if I remember right, that they were mostly talking about once fired brass from the saw, and reloading for the AR-15/M-16. But it really didn't have anything to do with the extractor groove being slightly different, it was the brass case itself.
Here is a pic of two 30-06 cases and a different ectractor groove that I was talking about before, having trouble with M1 Garand on the thinner groove:

[browningautorifle]

Different extractor grooves can just be different lots of cases. Doesn't denote different ammo or better or worse ammo. The ammo for SAW and rifle are the same. Same manufacture and headstamp and all. You cant go mixing up cartriges for combat use. The belts could be broken down and used in rifles. Or the other way around.

[emmagee1917]

The thin groove is GI spec 30-06 . When they developed the 7.62 / .308 they developed the wide groove to improve performance . After a period of time , people started using the wide groove in the 30-06 production to cut down on tooling costs. No problem , the wide groove caused no harm in 30-06 , but offered no atvantages as in the .308 because the guns were not made to the specs to take advantage of it. Now , along come people who see that changing the internal grooves in the enblock to fit the new groove would aid function or changing extractor specs would take advantage of the new groove change and implament them because all thier ammo is new groove. Later , these get onto the surplus market and end up in our hands and we try to mate new groove gun parts with old groove ammo , and mating problems pop up .
Chris

[HILLBILLY-06]

Now , along come people who see that changing the internal grooves in the enblock to fit the new groove would aid function or changing extractor specs would take advantage of the new groove change and implament them because all thier ammo is new groove. Later , these get onto the surplus market and end up in our hands and we try to mate new groove gun parts with old groove ammo , and mating problems pop up .
Chris

That's what I agree with 100%, and thanks... I have also just nuticed, that since I had both types, I would go out back in the woods and chamber each round that I have examples of on hand. "Guess what".... The wide groove chambers and eject's fine every time. The thin groove chambers, but feels like it locks my lugs very tight, and makes racking it back very difficult. "I had to really bump the op rod handle hard to release the lugs" and eject the thin groove case.
SO why does this happen? That's why I replied earlier in the forum, I had seen it happen before, but never tried it myself. Well I just tried tried it and I see what they were talking about... Any suggestions??? Or more to the point, can this damage our extractor, or anything else? Im just curious, and not trying to be difficult, so please put your heads together on this one and see if you can offer some suggestions.