Gun Show Bust

[Frederick303]

Sir,

I was not chiding you in any way; it is just that unless there are a few die-hard Kar98K fans on this board, I doubt that any of us would have a real feel for the Kar98K and associated Mauser designs price points. I would note that rifle collecting in the internet age has become increasingly specialized. My reference to Gunboard forums was that of all the sites related to Kar98K rifles I have seen; that site seems to have the most authorities on the topic of German WWII rifles and associated Mauser rifles. I think that John Walls used to post on that site, and he is about the closest thing to Ian Skennerton that the Mauser Fans have. Of course I could be wrong, there may well be a better site, but given my limited knowledge on the topic I would go there if I wanted a serious question answered.

What little I know of that market is as follows:

The Russian capture and Yugo reworked K98K rifles have seen a similar rise in prices to the Enfield Rifles in the past 10 years. I seem to recall being able to buy really nice Russian captures and Yugo rifles around 1998~1999 for around 150 to 200 dollars, now I understand they are 350 to 400 (or slightly more) dollar rifles if the bore is indecent condition. Matching rifles that went for 500 dollars 10 years ago are now the 900 to 1200 dollar rifles, depending on the rarity and correctness of the rifle.

The really high money in Kar98K rifles in all matching, non-sanded examples with features that collectors want. Just as a correct 1941 Longbranch rifle with early features would draw a tidy sum, so too a similar dated Kar98K with what are considered rare features would draw a large sum of money, from what I have heard that sum can roughly be doubled for collectable German rifle compared to a equivalent British rifle. Post war issued rifles seem to have a lot less interest among the high end collectors and as such the prices for these rifles are markedly less, as is the price for mismatched rifles.

One of the main differences I have observed in German collecting is that the collectors all want to have rifles that are as close to original factory issued as possible. There is a similar mind set in US M1903 and M1 collectors. In that regard the Enfield collectors seem to be similar to the Mosin Nagant collectors, in as much as both fraternities seem to enjoy and value reworked rifles to a degree which is not present in the M1, Kar98K and M1903 collecting worlds. This seems to be related to three separate facets:

1) Enfield rifles path through the military world has can be traced through the copious markings that accompany issue and reworks, Kar98K rifles did not seem to have similar marking applied, very little is known about the rework facilities and markings applied. Because of various scandals, reported data in the main reference book (Laws books) is subject to some debate.

2) The fact that many details of Enfield use have been revealed by armourers like Peter Laidler of the UK, Kim Williams of New Zealand, an armourer that used to post by the name of Smith (forget first name) from Australia, as well as a few folks that have posted with armourer experience from Canada and Ireland (not necessarily on this site, I am thinking back to the days of the old Gun and Knife forum). The few postings from a single German WWII armourer I know of have all been second hand(related by his nephew) and given that these early 2000’s posting were 55 year old recollections, very limited in the usable detail. There are no similar detailed first hand authorities available for the Kar98K folks like we have had in the past 15 years for the Enfield; hence that aspect of the rifle’s history has been largely lost, leaving condition and originality of markings to be the primary determination of value.

3) The Enfield saw wide use after WWII and Enfield collectors are interested in this post war history, whereas the primary association and interest in Kar98K collectors seem to be the use of this rifle in the second great international debate. Thus a 1943 Fazakerley with a post WWII South African markings would be seen a very interesting collectable in Enfield quarters with no loss in value and perhaps a very slight premium to the right guy, where as a 1943 BYF Mauser that had been cut for a French sling post war would be seen a lesser example compared to a similar non-post war modified BYF Kar98K. I have actually seen Kar98K collectors sneer at such rifles, something I have never seen in Enfield collecting.

Because the prices have generally been a lot higher in the Kar98K world, (at least until recently) and the price of rifles is so dependent on being “factory original” there seems to be a lot more faking going on in the Kar98K world, mostly related to assembling “matching rifles”. At shows you will see folks trying to find Mauser parts with the serial number that they need to correct a mismatched K98K. You will note on the websites devoted to K98K discussions on what the correct serial number sequences should be (4 digit, last two digit or no digits at all) v.s. the year of production. You will also see discussions on what venders supplied what company, as if the waffenampt marking is off or the factory code is on that is not seen on that manufacturers rifle, then the rifle is not matching and the price falls drastically. The discussions on the blue and how to tell the correct finish are very detailed. As such unless you really know your rifles I think it is a lot easier to get badly burned in Kar98K collecting if you are buying “correct” rifles. The numbers of fake Kar98K sniper rifles is apparently enormous. There have been major scandals in the Mauser collecting world with major authorities having been found assembling fakes, as such the debates on correct and incorrect tend to be a bit more heated than on this site.

That is my limited knowledge or understanding of this topic, but I think most of the above is not far off the truth. I have a few of these rifles and like them, but I have found the Kar98K and US collectors to be a far more contentious group of collectors, for reasons that I am not quite sure of, though it may well be the larger amounts of money involved.