One of 5000?

[Patrick Chadwick]

Is this a Boer carbine?

Attachment 34963
As far as I can tell from the information in Ball, “Mauser Military Rifles of the World”, 3rd edition – yes:

An 18” Mauser carbine, marked MOD. MAUSER 1896 over LUDWIG LOEWE & Co. BERLIN.
Attachment 34968
Flat-bottomed bolt body.
Completely matching numbers.
Number 4114. No prefix or suffix number.
Attachment 34967
The mark below the number is the crown over fraktur letter L(?), as shown in Ball, lying on its left side.

The same mark is on the bolt handle, lying on its right side.
Attachment 34969
No trace of receiver ring crest or removal of such. Under a watchmaker’s eyeglass very fine finishing marks can be seen that go right round the receiver ring, into which marks the number and stamp have been applied - i.e. finishing marks before numbering, not the other way around (which would indicate refinishing).

Bore excellent for the age, with (under an eyeglass) some fine pitting of the grooves at the muzzle end, but lands bright all the way through.
Smooth ,almost mirror bright chamber. "Low mileage" internals.
Attachment 34970

Lovely woodwork, not varnished, almost too good for a rifle that was in a conflict.
Attachment 34962
However, I have looked at a great deal of Mauser woodwork of all vintages, and I cannot say that the wood was obviously refinished. If the wood was refinished, it was done excellently and a long time ago.

Unusual alteration of the foresight, with a bead-strip hard-soldered onto the blade.
Attachment 34964Attachment 34965

Unusual alteration of the backsight, with a ring added on above the V. The V itself has not been damaged or filed out.
Attachment 34966Attachment 34971

The ring may look off-center, but it matches the V perfectly. Very careful work, not a fudge!

Wallhanger price, so no financial tragedy if it is not a Boer Mauser.

How say you gentlemen? Could it be? And how about the sights? Has anyone seen anything like this anywhere else, especially on Boer carbines?

Looking forward to your comments!


Patrick

PS: all the photos are of the rifle as received a couple of hours ago. I have not cleaned it up, just goggled and made photos!

Information

Warning: This is a relatively older thread This discussion is older than 360 days. Some information contained in it may no longer be current.

[RobD]

Yes, this is a Boer Mauser carbine. 5,000 numbered 1-5000 made by Loewe, and 2,000 numbered 5001-7000 by DWM. All used in combat, issued to artillery and police commandos, but also very popular among officers. The sights have been upgraded, as you describe, but should make shooting a pleasure - reload your own with 170 grain bullet and 2,200 fps as modern factory ammo will shoot 1-2 feet high at 100 yds.
Most Boer carbines had the foresight wings removed to prevent errors in snapshooting; and many have had the sling swivels reversed as there is a design fault - the rear saddle ring/swivel tends to bruise the right handed shooter's cheek on firing.
The wood may have been slightly sanded - the same serial number should be visible on the wood just below the serial no. on the receiver; and there should be a gothic L on the buttstock as a stock cartouche.
The survival rate of carbines exceeds the long rifles (of which ~37,000 produced), because Imperial troops found these to be so attractive and able to fit into the kitbag. Not sure what you paid, in the UK this would fetch about £600-800 from a dealer and a bit less in a private sale; more if carved with a name.

If you need a clearing rod, PM me as I have some spares.

[Patrick Chadwick]

Thanks for the confirmation Rob, PM is on its way.

The wood may have been slightly sanded - the same serial number should be visible on the wood just below the serial no. on the receiver; and there should be a gothic L on the buttstock as a stock cartouche.

No trace of either marking, so perhaps it was lightly touched up at some time in the past.

Maybe a range report tomorrow!

[RobD]

By the way, I have never before seen anything like those sight modifications on any Boer rifle. In general, the Boers left their vee and barleycorn sights alone - cut-down or carved woodwork is the commonest customization one sees.

[Patrick Chadwick]

By the way, I have never before seen anything like those sight modifications on any Boer rifle. In general, the Boers left their vee and barleycorn sights alone - cut-down or carved woodwork is the commonest customization one sees

It is indeed very curious. I don't know whether to
a) leave it because that is how the Boer used it - the "part of its history" argument
b) remove it because it was added on later, so is "non-historical" as far as the Boers are concerned
c) leave it because it works better like that (I'll find out today)
d) leave it because I just don't know whether it is "Boer-original" or not. Probably never provable either way.
e) leave it because I'm just plain lazy.

As you can see, until I know more, the conservative arguments are in the majority - leave it as it is!


Patrick

[villiers]

Patrick, the hard soldered front sight blade shows the same problem I had with my two short carbines. The regulation sights were obviously set for volleys aimed at a distant target. Getting the rifle to hit anything less than 300 yards meant lengthening the front sight blade, as the rear sight couldn´t be lowered any further. It seems obvious that this is a typical modification made for and by a fighting individual to a rifle, designed for use by a military unit. Anything by Loewe/DWM is a keeper!

[Patrick Chadwick]

It seems obvious that this is a typical modification made for and by a fighting individual to a rifle, designed for use by a military unit.

Thanks for that encouraging message Patrick. The same thought had occurred to me, but I reckoned it sounded too much like special pleading by the owner! With this type of rifle, where you anticipate a very high POI at 100 meters, I usually tack on a second target for aiming below the proper target as a precautionary move. I have experienced service rifles that shoot over the target frame at 100, but not yet one that shoots too low!

Can't get to the range today, so I'll find out tomorrow!

[Patrick Chadwick]

Got to the range today, in the tropical thunderstorm weather that is plaguing Europe at the moment. As I hoped (and Patrick Villiers suggested) the sight alteration puts the carbine well on target at 25 meters
Attachment 35029

and 100 meters.
Attachment 35030
No sight alteration required going from 25 to 100!
Extraordinary, especially when compared with the usual Mauser carbine performance of shooting sky-high at such short ranges. Whoever made this alteration understood his rifle well.

As you can see, the POI in the 25 meter target is in the same (relative) area as the group at 100 meters. So it looks as if all I need to do is drift the foresight blade a touch to the right, and then leave it alone! An all-matching historical gun in good condition that shoots OK* for a wallhanger price - this time, I really got lucky!

*With practice, I think it ought to manage "all in the 9", which is about as good as you can expect with such a short sight radius.

[villiers]

I wouldn´t drift the sight without looking into what it does at different distances. My LE No. 5 doesn´t seem to have a straight trajectory. I "corkscrews" and gets straighter at about 300 yards. Your Boer Mauser drifts from left to right from 25 to 100 metres, so might well be ok as is.

[Patrick Chadwick]

Your Boer Mauser drifts from left to right from 25 to 100 metres, so might well be ok as is.

Not so. Patrick, I get your point, but please read the handwritten comments on the first target. The 5 shots on the left are a test group from my .30M1 carbine. Only the shot at 4 o'clock in the 7 ring is from the Boer carbine.

The weather was awful, and the targets were disintegrating before my eyes. I fired just that single shot, and went straight to 100 meters (the second target). It is in the same area as the 100 meter group, so the rifle is quite consistent between 25 and 100 meters - the angular deviation is the same. I look forward to better weather and the chance to fire longer strings that will give a more solid statistical result. But this rifle is an A1 keeper!

I wouldn´t drift the sight without looking into what it does at different distances.

Dead right I won't! The POI can change significantly with the load, so as long as the group is actually on the paper and can be evaluated, I never make corrections until the load has been optimized. Especially with driftable sight blades, where repeated knocking left and right will loosen the dovetail.