No4 mk1*

[evmoor]

good day, I have inherited a No4 mk1*, I have done a little research and I beleive it was made by Savage Arms, the stock appears to be sporterized but the rest of the rifle I don't know, it has what appears to be a military styled flash suppressor, but I have not seen another rifle like it. It has been in the family for a long time, I remember my father calling it a jungle carbine, but it is not a No5. here are the pictures.


any thought as to what this actually is?


Evan

Information

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[Patrick Chadwick]

I beleive it was made by Savage Arms,

It would be a good idea if you could post a photo of the butt socket, as this should have the full number and possibly other stamps that will enable a clear identification.
But it has nothing to do with a jungle carbine. A jungle carbine flash hider looks like a short cone. It seems to be a normal Enfield No. 4 MK1 barrelled system. The muzzle end with the bayonet lugs has been cut off, and the muzzle brake (I do not think that is a flash suppressor) has been fitted. Looks like a home-brew to me.


Patrick

[evmoor]

thank you for your response patrick, I have not seen a muzzle brake in that design on anything non military, it very well could be a personalized creation.
the 2nd image 0176b is the butt socket with the serial no. and date of manufacture, as well as the savage marking.


Evan

[Patrick Chadwick]

the 2nd image 0176b is the butt socket with the serial no. and date of manufacture, as well as the savage marking.

Good heavens! How did I manage to miss that? Of course, it is a Savage from early 1943, maybe January (1943 production started with 40C...., finished with 84C....)

[Peter Laidler]

That is definately a muzzle brake as opposed to a flash eliminator. The benefits of putting a muzzle brake onto small arms is dubious because the recoiling weapon has already imparted energy in the form of recoil that you will already be feeling the force of as the bullet is travelling up the bore. It is only when the bullet has actually LEFT the bore that the gas can start to do something about the rearward energy and try to..... Some call it fuzzy logic - certainly some of the whacky designs were based on fuzzy/dodgy logic that wouldn't stand even the mildest bench testing! anyway. There's more to it than that of course. We had some great trials and test setups at Shrivenham that made great student research especially with L1A1's

[muffett.2008]

I'd like to see a couple of pic's of both sides of the knox, with the stamped info there, that should tell if it's riggydigge or not.

[jmoore]

Unless I've lost it altogether, that's a modified SVT 40 (Tokarev) muzzle brake.

[Tahunua001]

I am new to the enfield and new to milsurps in general but it is my understanding that all jungle carbines were made in england. all enfields marked US property were made by savage/stevens(I have an original MK1* and it's a blast). that muzzle brake does not look correct at all to me. jungle carbines were essentially a sporterized no4. they made lightening cuts on the barrels, cut the stocks and handguards down, anything to get rid of excess weight and make them a light little carbine(essentially the idea behind sporterization). a lot of people cut down their no4s to mimic the jungle carbine but there were also a number of companies that faked the jungle carbine by chopping down no4s, generally they were a little sneakier about it and only did the english models though, I've never heard of anyone doing it to a savage, that sticks out like a sore thumb.

[browningautorifle]

Jmoore's got it right. It's Tokarev muzzle break. The rest has been cobbled up by John Q Public for a special whatever. Hope it at least shoots well...

[muffett.2008]

I reckoned if we saw the knox we'd find it had been rebarreled.