Charlton Machinegun

[Woodsy]

I am fortunate to own two original Charltons, although they are both incomplete, and my research has shown that there are no more than 14 worldwide. Although they were essentially handmade, there was a definite production design which is clearly illustrated in the first photo of the Waiouru collection shown above. The give-away is the shape and angle of the pistol grip which should be straight and angled rearward. Any that are not straight, or angled forward, are modern made replicas which are based on the original drawings, copies of which are fairly common in NZ. Only 1800 NZ Charltons were made and almost all of them were destroyed in a fire at a storage facility just after the war. They were only ever issued to the Home Guard and they were not to be used in full-auto mode except in extreme emergency (like you are the only Guardsman facing a Japanese invasion force and they are 20 yards away!). I knew a WW2 Armourer who had the job of acceptance testing of them in WW2 and he said the friction brake (the cylindrical device on the right rear of the action) would fail in full-auto fire and the gun would speed up until the bolt head fractured. Charlton took his design to Australia during the war and the much neater version made by the Electrolux factory in Melbourne in pictured in the Waiouru photos. Only four or five of these exist and they were never put into full production. I have a partially modified Lithgow SMLE body that was recovered from the old Electrolux factory many years ago. The NZ Charltons used purpose-built Bren type magazines that were made in Australia but they were slightly oversize where they fitted the action and had to be file fitted which caused a weakness in the feed lips. These original mags are very rare but I am fortunate to have an example. Any Charlton magazine which is modified from a Bren mag is a replica. After the problems with the contract magazines was discovered, the Charltons were issued just with their standard 10 rd MLE mags. The NZ made MP38 shown in the Waiouru photos was made by an RNZAF Armourer (Beale) and was milled and turned from solid metal. It is beautifully made and is a one-off. In addition to Sten production in NZ during WW2, Allen Mitchell of Wanganui also developed a submachine gun of which four prototypes were made. I was able to handle and examine one at Waiouru Museum in 1993.

---------- Post added at 10:50 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:47 AM ----------

Peter, the NZSAS modified L1A1's have the forward pistol grip screwed to a steel plate inside the fore-end, not directly to the handguards!

[HOOKED ON HISTORY]

Looked here expecting to see more photos. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Necessi...r_of_invention
I think someone needs to update this wikipedia posting.

[303Guy]

Wiki do have an entry on the Charlton. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlton_Automatic_Rifle. They don't know that Auckland museum has one.

[HOOKED ON HISTORY]

Wiki do have an entry on the Charlton. Charlton Automatic Rifle - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia. They don't know that Auckland museum has one.

I love to learn! You Kiwis are quite resourceful .

[5thBatt]

[Woodsy]

I love to learn! You Kiwis are quite resourceful .

Those of us that were born in the 1940's and 50's still have the old 'Kiwi ingenuity' but the younger generation that have been raised in the modern 'PC' era with TV, computer games, fast food, and 'nanny state' are not quite up to it, particularly those who don't get out of the cities much. That is, of course, a generalisation and there are a great many who do quite well, but those that don't are hopeless!

[HOOKED ON HISTORY]

Those of us that were born in the 1940's and 50's still have the old 'Kiwi ingenuity' but the younger generation that have been raised in the modern 'PC' era with TV, computer games, fast food, and 'nanny state' are not quite up to it, particularly those who don't get out of the cities much. That is, of course, a generalisation and there are a great many who do quite well, but those that don't are hopeless!

Don't leave out the early 60s. Well said and very true. Seems to hold true in the US as well. Shipped our manufactureing to undevelouped countrys to produce inferior quality products leaving quite a void of oppertunity even for those younger folks with mechanical ability and inventiveness. This is part of what fuels my intrest in milsurps. Not just the men who designed these weapons or carried them into battle but awe at the folks who applied their skill to their production. I will end there for fear of venturing into the prohibited subject.

[Peter Laidler]

When I was in NZ (and Aust to a slightly lesser extent) in the 60's I noticed that these two nations had blokes with bags of nous. They could pretty-well fix anything. The word I'm looking for is versatility. I asked my friend Robbie Robertson how come they were so good and versatile and he told me that in NZ at the time, it was pretty well impossible to import new things or even some spare parts without what was known at the time as 'overseas funds' As a result, they had a good home based industry making parts and the ability to do everything for themselves including the manufacture of parts for the Sunderland flying boat engines

He also said to me that this was the reason why all (?) of the desert LRDG and SAS teams had New Zealanders or Australians as their fitters. Simply because they were so adaptable and able to get you home when the muck hit the fan.

I was paid in UK-Sterling or Aust £ (I could choose) while I was in NZ and I was always asked if I would give the blokes my UK ££'s in exchange for NZ£ instead of going to the bank. I seem to recall that the Aust and NZ £ changed to $ while I was there.

Yep...... Very versatile people

[HOOKED ON HISTORY]

Not to sell the Britts short. Radar,Rolls Royce,SMLE etc...

[303Guy]

Not to sell the Britts short. Radar,Rolls Royce,SMLE etc...

Hell yes! We haven't forgotten how they performed in WW2. They did do some strange things though, like under specifying the accuracy requirements of the original Lee Enfield/Medford - or so I have read.