Help me pick apart my old gal?

[RCS]

TDH, You appear to believe that all or most M1 rifles started losing their originally after the first "GI cleaning party" ? As a company armor, I never saw a GI cleaning party, most men were fussy about who cleaned their rifle. The rifles issued to the motor pool and cooks etc did not see the GI party either, because they were put away clean to begin with.
Officers were issued M1 rifles but almost never used their rifle, the unit armorer looked after these rifles. Even in basic training I never saw a GI cleaning party.

Rifles lost their originally most of the time by rebuilds and unit armors replacing parts and I am sure there were was many a GI cleaning party too. Men use to take the M1 rifle apart blindfolded and put it back together again but little is said about that now on the forums

[browningautorifle]

I too was army for my whole life. I never saw people just throw parts into a giant soup and pull something out. Everyone wanted to clean his own as he was responsible for it.

[Joe W]

Pretty basic terminology to a collector. correct would only imply that the rifle has parts that would have been on the rifle when originally built. The term "correct does not imply that the part is original to the build. I think that we all are aware that the parts are interchangeable and finding a original rifle would be extremely difficult, but not impossible.
While in the military I was a Infantry Weapons Armorer and, as such, all I cared about was that, as you said, the rifle went bang. Rev. numbers of parts meant nothing to me, in fact, at that time, I didn't even know or care what the numbers meant. But now, as a collector, these things have meaning.

As others have said, I too never saw a "cleaning party" where rifle parts were dumped into a common tub of cleaning solution. We cleaned our own rifles.

[TDH]

Having been born in 1951 I did not go through basic during WW2 but my uncles did and they as well as many other vets of that time told me about the GI parties to clean rifles. I'm fairly sure it is a practice that was lost in time and probably for good reason but we must remember that at that time the new soldiers and new rifles were arriving as fast as they could. Today you have WW2 you were pushed through in 8 weeks and corners were cut.

On the other hand I do understand collectors but come on guys sometimes it's a bit much. If you have the time and it's your thing more power to you. I guess it just reminds me to much of political correctness so my apologizes if I hurt anyones feelings. Huggs will be given right after dindin.


---------- Post added at 06:42 AM ---------- Previous post was at 06:38 AM ----------

That should have read Today you have basic training and then 12 weeks of AIT and then specialty school but during WW2 they were pushed through in 8 weeks.

[latigo 1]

Correct parts? Do they fit? Do they function properly? When you squeeze the trigger does the rifle go bang, eject the case, chamber a new round and lock up? It's the correct part!
If you find a rifle out there today with all the (correct) numbered parts it in all probability is still incorrect because it is not arsenal original. Arsenal original would be somewhat of a miracle as after the first G.I. cleaning party they wouldn't be.
Scenerio of a typical G.I. party. Rifles issued. Rifles stripped and trigger groups and other parts put in bucket of solvent to soften and remove cosmoline (with a lot of elbow grease). The chance of getting the same parts back in your rifle that you took out with the parts of a dozen or more rifles in the same bucket are slim to none.

Does it fit and function? It's the right part.

I guess you don't understand the difference between a "correct" rifle and an "original" rifle. They are not the same thing. It doesn't need to be original to be correct. Just needs to have all the same parts that would have been used during that time period. Doesn't need to be the same parts it left the factory with.

[Joe W]

Having been born in 1951 I did not go through basic during WW2 but my uncles did and they as well as many other vets of that time told me about the GI parties to clean rifles. I'm fairly sure it is a practice that was lost in time and probably for good reason but we must remember that at that time the new soldiers and new rifles were arriving as fast as they could. Today you have WW2 you were pushed through in 8 weeks and corners were cut.

On the other hand I do understand collectors but come on guys sometimes it's a bit much. If you have the time and it's your thing more power to you. I guess it just reminds me to much of political correctness so my apologizes if I hurt anyones feelings. Huggs will be given right after dindin.


---------- Post added at 06:42 AM ---------- Previous post was at 06:38 AM ----------

That should have read Today you have basic training and then 12 weeks of AIT and then specialty school but during WW2 they were pushed through in 8 weeks.

In your original post you seemed to be speaking in general, now you are speaking of WWII. The M1 rifle was in active service for close to 20 years after the end of WWII, which is the period most of us that have commented are referring to. Granted WWII was a different time and cleaning may have been done in a different manner. Here is a good film of the "cleaning" of rifles during WWII ( Iwo Jima ).
Stock Footage - United States 3rd Marine Division armorers repair rifles inside tents on Iwo Jima, during World War II.

[browningautorifle]

Granted WWII was a different time

Yes Joe, but this footage is armourers...and that's a bit different. And when those got back to the US they'd have been re-built 100% again. We were just speaking of supposed "GI cleaning parties".

By the way, eerie footage of those punctured flame thrower tanks...imagine...

[Joe W]

Agreed Jim, just thought those that may not have seen the film would enjoy it. But even in that film the armorers seem to be cleaning rifles individually.

[browningautorifle]

I think that whole series are great Joe!

[RCS]

There were original M1 rifles that survived WW2, despite what TDH and his second hand knowledge would have you believe. The data sheets on original gas trap rifles are an excellent guide, the 38,001 Lend Lease rifles are often used as bench marks plus the other rifles that had the British proofs between the gas cylinder rings. The rifles purchased during the "once a lifetime" from DCM were also examples . Plus the fact that not all M1 rifles went to the basic training units some were even put away as reserve. The CMP Auction will still turn up a mint WW2 rifle to be auction off. Examples will still turn-up.