The .30 Carbine rifle that you probably never knew existed!

[imarangemaster]

A French 1950 offering in .30 Carbine, designed by Ludwig Vorgrimler (designer of the WWII German STG45 in 7.92x33mm). It employed his roller locking mechanism, later used in the Spanish CETME, and the German licensed version of the CETME, the 7.62x51 Nato G3 (ala HK91 .308). I know the French LOVED the 30 Carbine from the Resistance days, and they used it extensively in Indochina because of its excellent close quarters jungle effectiveness.

CEAM Modèle 1950 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



Having owned a CETME, and currently owning a PTR91 (American HK91) I have a certain mechanical facination with the delayed lock roller action.

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[Mikesm44]

Interesting. Looks like it would be so nice to shoot. .30 is pretty reasonable recoil wise.

[imarangemaster]

The French CEAM and rare Reising Model 50, also in .30 carbine have always intrigued me. Also, the Dominican Republic made Cistobal .30 carbine full-automatic is pretty cool.

[Bruce McAskill]

The French made more experimental firearms in 30 carbine then I think anyone else did. You had the Model 1949 C.E.A.M. as shown above. Then there was the Model 1949 M.A.C. semi auto. The Model 1950 M.A.C. Automatic carbine. The Model 1948 M.A.S. Automatic carbine. The Model 1949 M.A.S. Automatic carbine. The Model 1949 semi auto M.A.S. carbine. The model 1950 M.A.T. Automatic carbine. And the winner was the M.A.S. 1949 Automatic carbine. But it didn't last very long as France was flooded with all kinds of USGI military equipment including lots of carbines.

[imarangemaster]

Reminds me of the History Channel (or Military Channel) show about the French Foreign Legion where the "expert" is shooting FL guns including the M1 Carbine, at 1'x1' clay blocks. He talks about the M1 Carbine being a pistol round (some expert), and is blown away when the carbine round decimates the clay block as badly (or worse) than the 7.5 MAS round.. IIRC he attributes it to the 7.5 MAS being a spire point, and the Carbine being blunt and tumbling.

[Victor Six Bravo]

There's also the Magal, the IMI-designed Galil carbine variant in .30 carbine. It didn't last too long in field conditions but it was designed to replace the M1 carbines in use by the Israeli police, they liked the .30 softpoint for urban work.

[imarangemaster]

Magal 30 Carbine.



There is also a bull-pup 30 Carbine in Israel, IIRC, called the "Hezi SM-1"

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[imarangemaster]

With all things considered, however, I think the M1 Carbine in standard USGI form is much handier and lighter. You can "tactical it up" with a Choate folding stock and an Ultimak rail handguard with a red dot. New isn't always better!

[mil-surp60]

YOU ARE CORRECT ,lol i never knew they made an stg or g3 type of any kind in 30 carbine and why lol? the 7.92 kurz was much more powerful and accurate than any 30 carbine , but i have to agree on the mil version , i own a winchester made in 43 carbine only thing i changed is to add a red dot with non gunsmithing mount to account for my ageing tired old eyes lol.works great.I think they are the best in original mil surp condition and way it was issued in ww2 and korea if possible than tacticooling them. But guess it would be a cool thing to own in 30 carbine just for that reason. Wonder how good they actually worked and how many were made?

[imarangemaster]

I have an M4 AR15 in 300 AAC Blackout (7.62x35). It pushes a 125 grain .308 bullet at 2225 fps, where the STG-44s 7.92x33 pushes a 125 grain .323 bullet at 2250 fps. The BC of the 300BLK is better, though. Oddly enough, I load my 300BLK witha 125 grain Sierra Match King OT bullet, 18.2 grains of WW296, and aCCI #41 primers. My 30 carbine I load a 110 grain bullet and 15 grains of the same WW296.