PPCo Patt18 Scope Repairs

[Bindi2]

[QUOTE=Son;287019]It has "Tarp worthy" markings

Attachment 49337Attachment 49338 Just as well mate i was a little worried. When is the next tarp showing

[AlphaMic13]

Hi there

I had a early WW1 PPscope which was in almost the same condition as yours. Optics were crystal clear, all internals worked perfectly and the focusing was great. As it was pitted I viewed it as a restoration piece which any work I did could only preserve it further I believed I couldn't do any harm to its current value . Peter's comment is actually very valid and I share the same opinion however, it really depends upon what you want to achieve and what your happy with.. ie a clean presentable looking scope with no evidence of pittting? or are you just wanting to preserve it in its current state (Ie to prevent further corrosion) but still have the pitting showing through its finish?. As mentioned earlier, I had a very similar condition scope but mine was of WW1 vintage and the scope tube was very pitted and looked quite awful. I decided to try and bring it back to as close as possible visually to its original spec which I think I achieved. Step 1) Having carefully stripped the scope of all internals and placed all the parts safely away I submerged the tube in a rust eating solution for 24 Hours. It was retrieved and rinsed to reveal a completely rust free scope ( with craters) so step 2) Using a very hard engineering filler type resin which had steel powder in the mix I filled over the craters (tiny bit proud of the surface) taking extra care around the engraved lettering on the tube. The ocular housing on mine was brass so it was only the tube I did this with but you would have to take care around the ocular housing area where the engraving is on your Pattern18.

Once the resin had dried solid I centred the tube on a lathe and finely skimmed the resin back level with the remainder of tubes surface using a fine grade Wet N Dry paper which was glued to a flat piece of steel. This was to ensure even pressure on tube while buffing back the resin. Wish I had taken pictures but the result was fantastic, I could make out the filled parts only by the slight colour variation of the steel to where the metal filled resin was. For the engraving to be bought back to its former splendour I took it to the only place I know in the county I live in that still has original engraving machines from the first war period. The chap looked at the tube... within about a second he told me what the font was... what spacing it had.. what depth it would have been and how it was originally done he then took me to the same machine it would have been done on originally and said I can have it back to you by next weekend. Basically he went over the original engraving exactly and added a thou of depth to the engraving and where some of the letters had been obliterated by rust these were re born again perfectly.

The scope came back the next weekend and then all I did was to warm the tube with hairdryer and apply a fine coating of black satin etch paint.. which made the tube look like it had been given a nice protective coating of suncorite.. so correct. I still have suncorite got it from my old job but it only works well on solid steel not on resin so the black etch paint which had hard baked on the tube worked very well.

Hope this helps.

Regards

Mac

[Surpmil]

Best option from all perspectives would probably be to clean ultrasonically or with caustic to get all dirt and oil off, blast at low pressure as mentioned, then rust brown/blue it as was done originally. Brass parts carefully gone over to remove any protrusions caused by dents on sharp corners etc., then black lacquered as per originals. A binocular or telescope repairman could suggest a suitable lacquer. Suncorite wouldn't be very close to the original in appearance.

If the tube was to be painted, the pits could be filled after phosphating then smoothed down flush. A few coats with polishing in between and the pitting might be almost invisible. The contrast between the fresh paint and the original blue of the rifle and mounts would be a bit of a shocker though. I'd rather see the pits myself.

If rust browned/blued it could be carefully polished to bring the state of the new finish closer to the condition of the finish on the rifle and bases. No one could accuse you of fakery if the pits were still obvious and the new finish was clearly applied on top of them.

The worst pits on the rings could perhaps be filled with a little very careful TIG welding.

If the numbers match, heroic efforts are justified, if not, other options might be considered such as a different scope.

[Roger Payne]

I would agree with surpmil, although I feel it is worthwhile, where pitting is not too deep, to strike it out with slow diligent work with a Swiss file, then progressively finer grades of abrasive paper. If pitting is not too deep it can be completely lost, & even if deeper can be greatly mitigated. If the scope is to be completely refinished I cannot see any harm in doing this, & it will permit of an original style rust-blued finish. Welding is an alternative & is fine with suncorite or other painted finishes, but tends to show as variably shaded areas with blueing. Great care has to be taken to rock the file during the striking up process or you will end up with horrendous flats on the scope body, but this is avoidable with care. It is also very time consuming & tedious - I have spent many hours just working on a single scope tube, but the results were worth it in the end. It is sometimes possible to hold a scope tube in a steady on a lathe & spin it, but this is something to be avoided where you wish to preserve original engraving (of course if you can get engraving gone over in the original font that is even better).

ATB

[Peter Laidler]

I held fire until someone else came along......... I wouldn't feel tooooo happy about all this filling and covering and....... you get my drift. It is what it is! Cleaning up as per Rogers and Surpmils thoughts are all well and good but much beyond that, with filler, albeit metallic filler, smacks of hiding something to me. Put it this way....... If you were restoring your 90 year old car would you be resorting to polyfilla? Or even if you were restoring your 80's MGB would you? Or what would you be thinking if you bought such a beast and, say, taking the door panel off you saw that the doors had been splodged with filler.

I recall some of those absolutely dire ex Indian Army telescopes that were refurbished in the usual bog standard Army workshop method. MInd you, it wasn't just the ex Indian ones either. Lots of the L1A1's weren't a whole lot better. And the saltwater silt laden rusty old No5 rifles and old Savage shotguns that got the same treatment......... Not the best looking but they really are what they are - or were!

Just my 2c's worth. Filler and all that stuff........... Even metallicly loaded.... Not for old time apprentices I'm afraid.

[Bindi2]

Filler and all that stuff........... Even metallicly loaded.... Not for old time apprentices I'm afraid.

Do you use CAD or still draft with pencil. You use conputors instead of paper and stamps. If bog/filler was not used in restoration some things would have been trashed and lost dont be so harsh OLD FELLA the kids a trying to keep our history for when they are the old fellas and the grandkids ask about you.

[muffett.2008]

Sorry Bindii, I have to agree with Peter.
Brad the scope, irrespective of pitting, is still a part of this firearms life cycle.
Be it good or bad, the pitting just shows that life just aint easy up the pointy end.

I can't see you touching up pits in a collectable just for show. Maybe you should just acid etch the remainder to give it a more even look, or find a time machine.

[Peter Laidler]

I know exactly what you're saying Bindi but the word filler smacks of hiding something to me. When I restored my old Mini Cooper S, not an ounce of filler went in. I taught myself to 'lead-load' on the welded and joined steel panels. And in the engine bay/boot where the brake fluid and battery corrosion had attacked the steel I just blasted, treated and primed it. A sort of homage to its past very hard life.

And I know that you'll all be interested to know, we had no rain yesterday or today - so far! The first break for weeks and weeks!

[muffett.2008]

And I know that you'll all be interested to know, we had no rain yesterday or today - so far! The first break for weeks and weeks!

........and we haven't had rain either, the only difference is we really need it.

[Bindi2]

........and we haven't had rain either, the only difference is we really need it.

Too early for rain over here Muff.
When the pits go through on some thing that delicate and old what would you do Muff.