Have to disagree there Jim. Seeing as how all pointy FMJ's will yaw and nearly all will break up or fragment in body tissue that more or less rules out the max penetration idea. I still say military FMJ's were designed to meet the requirements of the 1899 Hague Declaration concerning expanding bullets. All other attributes were just unintended bonuses.
It was around '90 or '91 when the use of BTHP bullets by snipers for combat use got the nod of approval.
Army JAG lawyers made the argument that since nearly all pointy military bullets yaw or break up in body tissue they all cause needless suffering and injury so all violate article 23e of the Annex to the Hague Convention IV of 1907 which out laws arms, projectiles or material that cause superfluous injury or unnecessary suffering and since the BTHP's open tip did not actually expose any of the core as outlawed by the 1899 Hague Convention and that it was part of the manufacturing process designed to provide better aerodynamics and not for expansion it was not in violation of the Hague rulings and thus legal for use in combat.
Box O Truth shot Frozen towels with the M1 carbine. Zipped right through. The Box O' Truth #8 - The Rags O' Truth - Page 1
Much of the carbines lack of stopping power was usage at 250-300 yards (past intended ranges) and uncontrolled untrained full auto fire. I also put a 30 carbine round through both sides of a kevlar helmet. I used a 110 JSP. The exit hole on the opposite side showed expansion and was larger than the entry on the top.
The carbine does yaw and tumble: Here's a youtube of the Lake City FMJ:
Federal Soft point:
Hornady Critical Defense
Last edited by imarangemaster; 03-03-2014 at 09:59 PM.
Seeing as how all pointy FMJ's will yaw and nearly all will break up or fragment in body tissue
I don't know. I've seen lots that have gone through various targets and expended themselves with minimum weight loss and are mostly still integral. I don't know which ones you mean fragment? 303? 8Mmm...30 cal M2? .50 Browning? I have seen bullets that lay on the street after fighting in a walled city and they were complete...bent, but complete. The new ones tend to go to pieces...yes, they all yaw.
Nice video clip , it would seem it was hot when that attack happened , also would be interesting to find out if he used a M1 or a M2 carbine ?I owned a new Iver Johnson M1 carbine a long time ago , and liked the light weight , compact size & light recoil , didnot like the way it stripped down ,and that you could not clean the tappet piston , with out a armourers tool .
Its not in the same league as the Stg44 or AK47 , they stripped & cleaned easier & more reliable .
From the limited info I have on the Carbine , its seems , when it was modified to fullauto ( M2 ) , and the 30rd mag used & in subzero ( cold ) temps , it failed to function well .
The M1 Garand & BAR seemed to handle the extreme cold OK .
The Russians have been using the AK74 for 40 years
The bullet for that weapon has a point with an air space inside. It upsets at the slightest provocation and is a deadly round. Technically, it isn't a hollow point round but kills like one.
I really think that the debate here is kind of silly. There are members who have used the carbine to deadly effect and recommend it and yet others who just dismiss that, citing something that they read in a book. I absolutely don't want to get shot with a carbine. I had a LRRP buddy in the war who was shot twice in the thigh by carbines, both bullets within an inch or two and probably spent or ricochets. Those were nice holes. He eventually didn't return from an outing.
The bullet for that weapon has a point with an air space inside. It upsets at the slightest provocation and is a deadly round. Technically, it isn't a hollow point round but kills like one.
I really think that the debate here is kind of silly. There are members who have used the carbine to deadly effect and recommend it and yet others who just dismiss that, citing something that they read in a book. I absolutely don't want to get shot with a carbine. I had a LRRP buddy in the war who was shot twice in the thigh by carbines, both bullets within an inch or two and probably spent or ricochets. Those were nice holes. He eventually didn't return from an outing.
AMEN! I have mentioned numerous times before, I dropped a 200 pound deer with a single heart lung shot at almost 100 yards with a 30 Carbine 110 JSP. I could get most of my hand in the exit hole.... Made a believer out of me!
IMHO, Phillydude hit the nail on the head: It is good at doing what it was designed for: a PDW for those who did not use a rifle. In the Pacific, it was a great jungle weapon for ranges of less than 100 yards. My dad on Iwo Jima and his brothers on other islands, all had M1 Carbines in the Pacific in WW2, and loved them. Said it never let them down, but it was close up and personal fighting. I knew a guy who was an NCO in France in the ETO. He carried a rifle as a rule in the countryside, but when they were in a village or town, he switched his rifle for the RTO's M1 Carbine. He said it was a superb house cleaner, and made a lot of Nazi's martyrs for Hitler. As far as jungle, it seemed to kill a lot of VC in Vietnam, or for that matter, GIs when used by the VC.
I don't think anyone is disputing it's effectiveness in the jungles or Europe. It was good for what it was designed for. It met it's match in the bitter cold Korean winter. That's all anyone's saying and that is backed up by documented testimony by those that used them there. Disputing that by arguing apples to oranges is pointless. It is what it is.
IMHO; Cold weather affects anything mechanical in general. The colder the more it effects. If a weapon has been in the snow and then warmed up it could leave moisture in the action, back in the cold then the action could freeze. There are many variables as to what freezing tempuratures will do to machanical things. Example. look what happened to the germans in Russia. GK
M1a1's-R-FUN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Originally Posted by vintage hunter
