"Unissued" (not JJCO) Lithgow

[browningautorifle]

I'm not quite as much of an amateur as you seem to think

It's because of the way you're talking here that causes that train of thought.

Example, the numbering is no problem nor is the finish. I've redone lots of rifles and can tell you for a fact, we renumbered and then re-parkerized or blued rifles and it looks exactly as this one does. Just like new. It's not that hard to make one look like the first day again. I knew once I looked at the rear sight guard pitting this is a refurbish. Doesn't matter how it looks, or the accompanying story.

And yes, the "We" would be armorers. Most here are acquainted with the armorers on this forum. There are several...we use them regularly.

[CINDERS]

Yes and quite a solid lot I may add cheers

[MRoberts06]

I noticed the rear sight pitting before I'd purchased it, but didn't pay it much mind: a 70 year old rifle in any state of issue, non-issue, refurb, etc. is allowed to have some minor pitting. For what I paid I was willing to overlook some cosmetic issues.

So, we're of the mind that this rifle has been refurbished, most likely not back at the factory, but by a dishonest civilian gunsmith who took a sporter rifle, re-stamped the sn's so they'd match, put new furniture on it, and sold it as a numbers matching, unissued No.1 MkIII*.

I'm glad I didn't pay too much for it.

[browningautorifle]

dishonest civilian gunsmith

That may be, but usually we were doing a rifle for an individual. What he does at that point is anyone's guess...but it's pristine, so there's that...

[Brian Dick]

Were any 1941 Lithgow rifles Parkerized at the factory when new? I think they were blued but could be wrong. I thought Parkerizing became the standard Lithgow finish in 1942. I'm just guessing from the number of wartime Lithgow SMLE's I've had through here. All of the factory original 1941 rifles I've seen were blued. John Jovino had thousands of them in the late 1980's including many rifles that were in parts. They were completed and sold off along with many beautiful original rifles at the time. I bought a butchered/chopped 1941 Lthgow many years ago that had been Parkerized during it's service and rebarreled it with a new 1945 Lithgow barrel and fitted all new, original wood back to it. It's one of my favorite shooters to this day and looks exactly like your rifle!

[Son]

I have a matching 1940 that is blued, but my '41 is a '52 FTR so cannot help you there Brian. Homer or Muffet will know almost for sure.
I don't think any of the numbers have been restamped. Anyone who has done any stamping of parts will tell you the "1" stamp requires a much lighter hit to get the same depth. It's not surprising to see the 1 so heavilly hit especially when it was the first number in the sequence. The rest of them were probably hit with the same force, but bigger surface contact means less penetration. Here's an example of a Lithgow SN with a heavy 1. The first number was a bit light so he gave the rest a bigger hit

Attachment 53272

[ssj]

SSJ - copper 2 x small brass screws at least that's what my Mk III's have sometimes there is shim material behind either plate to get the right fitment.
:

The ones Ive seen are copper but have used steel screws, which btw took the "hammer" So on my one I replaced them with brass ones (Ive kept the "originals") and yes Ive seen brass shim.

[Homer]

Brian they started parkerising around the time rifles were serial numbered B80000 at the end of 1941.
Son I only put a question mark over the serial numbering because of the weight on every number and the font is a little different to the bolt. I looked through pictures of about 12 maybe 15 1941 actions and couldn't find one stamped so heavily. Doesn't mean it's not right though, I just thought it worth raising for discussion.
Maybe this barrelled action was never completely assembled into a rifle and jovino or someone bought it as a barrelled action.

---------- Post added at 07:22 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:18 AM ----------

The ones Ive seen are copper but have used steel screws, which btw took the "hammer" So on my one I replaced them with brass ones (Ive kept the "originals") and yes Ive seen brass shim.

The factory used brass and steel screws.

[Colonel Enfield]

Ha your small print is very funny. Never say never with enfields. I hate the word unissued, but there are 1941/42/43/44 and 45 dated lithgows around that appear almost as new, as if unissued i suppose.

You're absolutely right on the "Never say never" thing with Enfields - Even something as simple as trying to categorise an SMLE as a Mk III or Mk III* is fraught with complications! I've seen Mk IIIs with magazine cut-off and volley sights removed but the windage adjustable sights still on them, Mk III*s with the slot and wood cutout for the magazine cut-off still present, Mk IIIs with the magazine cut-off but not windage adjustable sights... There's a reason Skennerton's book is (fortunately) so hefty!

I agree there's some nice, outstanding condition 1941-1945 Lithgows out there but I think there's a huge differece between "Unissued" and "Issued to people who didn't use them very much". There are plenty of reasons a WWII-dated Lithgow would come through the scrape in tip-top shape (even without an FTR somewhere along the way) - issued for guard duty at a base or depot in Australia, for example.

To me, "Unissued" implies the rifle went straight from the factory to a warehouse (Raiders of the Lost Ark-style or otherwise) and was promptly forgotten about until after all the brouhaha was over, at which point somene doing an inventory said "Why have we got these obsolete rifles in storage?" and arranged for them to be surplussed off.

In other words, a totally different kettle of fish to a rifle which went from said warehouse to the Waikikamukau Tank and Vehicle Repair Depot where it sat in the armoury rack for 95% of its service life, except for being used for target drills occasionally, until well after the war somene doing an inventory said "Why have we got these obsolete rifles here?" and arranged for them to be surplussed off.

[MRoberts06]

Thank you for the reply, Colonel.