Saw this picture

[JimF4M1s (Deceased)]

The M1 Carbine in Normandy: A Case Study

Date Written: Winter 2009
Author: Chris Guska
Research Assistance: P.W. Browning, Mike "Squirrley" Ellis

The above person wrote the article and has authored other pieces on the 90th Infantry Division Association.

[imarangemaster]

I have read the D Day study on carbines. It is interesting and thorough , but I think it is flawed to a degree. One, it covers only a single campaign in a single theater of operation. Nothing about Italy or the Pacific Theater. Two, it covers a small percentage of carbines and their users in theater, limited to a number of photographs where the user and carbine are fully visible. Many of the pictures are "behind the lines" since few photos are taken in firefights. Could it be that support type behind the line have less need for mags, and the ones up front fight, not pictured, have more need and more mags? I have no idea, and make no claims. I just think it is over generalizing of a small amount of data.

I am not claiming any statistics. I quoted what my dad actually carried, and said that I have seen a fair number of photos with multiple pouches. I make no claim other than I think they are overgeneralizing to fit what they think is "correct." I do not have an agenda. BTW, my uncles were Marine tankers and only had stock pouches on their carbines. If they wore a belt at all, they just had a 45 (being NCOs).

[INLAND44]

I really don't like that mindset where things 'must be a certain way' or you must furnish proof of why not. Sometimes you just have to think about things. The first guy to put a mag pouch on a carbine stock started something that spread like wildfire, and I bet it didn't take long to happen once the boys started getting the carbine. The concept is still being used today with single or double mag stock pouches in use by the USMC on M16A4 rifles with fixed A2 stock. In the M1911A1 world, a curious phenomenon exists. When the M1911A1 was developed, the Ordnance Dep't. promulgated new rules for 'Standardization' of U.S. small arms, in which pistol and rifle parts had to interchange, and each lot of weapons produced would be subject to testing by government inspectors before the arms were to be shipped. Colt was the only supplier of the M1911A1 before the war, and they marked the slides with the frame serial number at that time. Now here's the thing - when one of these pistols is found today, fairly often the slide number will be a mismatch, usually by only a few digits. The 'master collectors' have always attributed this to 'parts swapping' during G.I, cleaning parties. Only recently have they been forced to consider the obvious, that the slides were mixed up during 'Standardization' testing and were shipped that way. There is no documentation of this to point to, but the appearance of some near-perfect specimens with obviously matching finish and wear marks, like a recent blued 1938, strongly indicate that the slide has been with the pistol since it was shipped. But we're talking about large sums of money here - the difference between a 1938 with matching slide and non-matching slide is probably $10,000. So the question is, can you consider the slide the pistol was shipped with from Colt the 'original' slide? I mean, is that a no-brainer or what? Its like the carbine mag pouch being put on the stock - you bet it was, except where forbidden by commanders. That would most likely be in rear-echelon situations, as the actual combatants usually were allowed to do 'field-expedient' things to make their life easier, within limits.

[Bill Hollinger]

I was just there! NOT! Then and now shot, your original and this one:

[browningautorifle]

Neat...

[jimb16]

As the son of a glider rider, I can tell you that my Dad told me they carried all the ammo they could get away with. At various times during WWII he was with the 82nd, 101st and the 17th. With that in mind, I wouldn't be surprised to see any airbourne soldier with 4 belt pouches, one on the stock and a couple of bandoliers!

[JimF4M1s (Deceased)]

I agree. Go into it with as much as you cab safely carry, and maybe even push that. You can never have too much ammo. A combat situation is not the time to run out. We were fortunate being on a boat. Instead of carrying pouches, we carried cans of ammo. Both .50 and carbine.

[shadycon]

Bill H. A little off thread but an interesting. When I got out of the service I took some photograghy courses at the local comm. collage. In one of the text books their was a pic. of a drive thru arch with a clock in it. I had took a pic. of that arch while in Ger.. For a class project I made a 8x10 print of it and turned it in. About 10 min. later the teacher asked me how I got the pic. out of the text book. Then I showed him that the time was not the same on the clock! GK

[imarangemaster]

When I was taking a California History at Sacramento, the book had a picture taken in the 1860s of the railroad cut at "Cape Horn" outside Colfax in Placer County, CA. I knew the spot it was taken from, and went and replicated the exact shot from the exact spot 140 years later. I got an A in the class with that one!

---------- Post added at 01:32 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:31 PM ----------

I was just there! NOT! Then and now shot, your original and this one:
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...llage001-1.jpg

I bet that was a wonderful sense of History to stand there. Did you know about the WW2 picture when you took this one????

[browningautorifle]

Cape Horn

I just went there on Google Earth...what a rough piece of terrain. Couldn't even find the RR tracks at first.