Fore-end Collar

[Bruce_in_Oz]

The “Spacer, sleeve”, (as per the 1973 “Illustrated Parts Catalogue”), is listed alongside the “Plate, seating" (NSN 1005-99-963-1592).

Thus a “proper" L-42 should have BOTH.

Why the extra “plate”?

The change of cartridge AND change of barrel profile meant that almost EVERYTHING related to No. 4 bedding went out the window.

The shorter fore end means that there is almost nowhere to play with barrel pressures, and, given the profile of an L-42 barrel, such pressures would probably need to be somewhat larger than for the trusty old No. 4.

I would imagine that a LOT of "carpentry" experiments were run, and the “failures” probably ended up heating the boiler to make tea.

The fore-end HAD to be stabilized and the combination of the “Spacer, sleeve” and “Plate, seating” appears to have done the trick.

[ssj]

I agree with Peter, if nothing else a torque spanner is a precision tool and we are talking armours here.

;]

Case in point my P14 lacked a front collar, I am told that is quite likely/normal as the rifle was used for NRA shooting and they wanted a tighter nip. The problem is the screw thread can give huge leverage/advantage against soft squashy wood. Now the dimensions of the collar is meant to be 12.4mm (0.5inch) long. I used a 11.7mm long collar as was the shortest I had and found even with this that the stock had 0.7mm vertical movement when the front trigger guard screw was nipped up properly, the wood had been crushed that much over the years. So I took the collar to 10.7mm so I have 0.3mm "crush" and the screw can be nipped solid so it wont undo as it had done on the P14 when I bought it. I assume I am going to have to add wood or epoxy filler under the guard to restore the proper dimension at some point...if I can get the proper collar as I used all I had, a SMLE one.

---------- Post added at 12:53 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:52 PM ----------

RobD: Mosin-Nagants don't have collars, do they? Haven't pulled one apart for a few weeks but quick look at parts diagrams don't seem to show either front or rear collars. As to other actions, the P14/ M1917's, of course, have collars and, as ChuckinDenver points out repeateadly in that forum adjustment of the lengths of both front and rear collars are crucial for accuracy with those rifles.

Ridolpho

he does? I must go find this....

[CINDERS]

quote=ssj;304829]if I can get the proper collar as I used all I had[/quote]

Packets of ten on that site in the UK brand new in box real deal from old stocks I have brought a couple of packets as hedging, beware you may end up in a bidding war so be patient and stop at your limit.

Post script - probably not Peter but I have helped those at the club out with theirs and also that funny little flat spring in the mag as it is rather hard to get bits and pieces in fact the spares for the 303's is pretty sparse in Au especially Western Aus, besides when I am flashed and ashes it is up to my son to do as he wishes with all the odd and ends one acquires.

[Peter Laidler]

Cinders....., you'll probably never need 10 in yours and your kids lifetime!

BinO. The collar and plate serating on the L42 are alternatives but this might not be clear. At the time there were NEW fore-ends in the system...., well, not really new but reworked, using diabolical workmanship No4 fore-ends and the old, original fore-ends fitted to the rifles. Again, converted using dire workmanship. But I digress. Some of the original fore-ends were already slightly damaged or crushed at the front trigger screw area so a plate was put here to spread the load imparted over a greater area and save the otherwise good fore-end. In Sept '72 an instruction was issued that all new fore-ends manufactured would have the plate and the EMER was amended to the effect that when a fore-end adapted for use with the metal reinforce plate is fitted then the collar be omitted.

There were very few real trials done by the MoD regarding barrel and support as prior to the trials they had purchased two Target P '14's that had 'identical in format' fully floating barrels fitted. These were VERY accurate so the accuracy trials carried out with the first converted No4T's were really a formality. They proved to be as acurate as the P '14 target rifles so were left floating. The fore0end was cut-off where it was because any further forwards was academic and just extra weight!

[villiers]

Are all the LE collars 0.5 inches long, or were different length collars used?

[stevebc]

I'd say different lengths were used, as I have 2 collars for my SMLE, one being about an eighth inch longer than the other. That or they are all .5 inch and someone shortened one of mine...

[Peter Laidler]

Never actually measured brand new ones but I suspect that they came as a stock size. At our workshops we had trays of zillions of them, used and new. I used to wittle a few down to be JUST over the amount of turns and select the one of the few that was closest, trim it and fit that. Much simpler. But these things always are when you've got zillions to play with.

I know what someones going to ask............ But surely you could choose one that was shorter and that'd defeat the object, surely! Yes, you could, but after you've fitted the fore-end and counted the exact number of turns of the front trigger guard screw, you take the fore-end off and count again using the trigger guard, collar and screw WITHOUT the fore-end. Get the one that is exact (or file the closest to fit) and problem solved............

[ssj]

quote=ssj;304829]if I can get the proper collar as I used all I had

Packets of ten on that site in the UK brand new in box real deal from old stocks I have brought a couple of packets as hedging, beware you may end up in a bidding war so be patient and stop at your limit.
.[/QUOTE]

I bought 5 for No4s, never seen them for no3s. As it turned out I think 2 for for No1s.

---------- Post added at 11:01 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:58 AM ----------

PL, I have had a number of No4s now that have the collar missing, also a no3. So I have used at least 3 so far. A packet of ten now I have 2 or 3 left of my 5 doesnt seem such a bad idea especially when they are very cheap.

---------- Post added at 11:03 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:01 AM ----------

"Never actually measured brand new ones but I suspect that they came as a stock size"

maybe, I have and my pack of 5 seemed to vary from 12.87 mm to 13.09mm, probably just a wide tolerance as they knew they would be shortened anyway.

[villiers]

"I know what someones going to ask............ But surely you could choose one that was shorter and that'd defeat the object, surely! Yes, you could, but after you've fitted the fore-end and counted the exact number of turns of the front trigger guard screw, you take the fore-end off and count again using the trigger guard, collar and screw WITHOUT the fore-end. Get the one that is exact (or file the closest to fit) and problem solved............ "


That is EXACTLY what I wanted to know!

[bob4wd]

Kind of off topic, but I've noticed that the Mosin Nagant's magazine sidewalls contact the bottom of the receiver perfectly flush when not in the wood. They may or may not contact the same surfaces when in the stock, but could this not serve the same purpose as the collars?