brazed trigger housing

[flatrock]

Would a brazed (Underwood) trigger housing be correct for a Underwood with serial # 4053xxx?

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[deldriver]

Would a brazed (Underwood) trigger housing be correct for a Underwood with serial # 4053xxx?

Most likely yes. However, Underwood really jumped around in their serial number sequences, especially in the 2 and 4 range. The 4's were started before the 2 range then stopped then started again later on. BTW, what's your barrel date? I had a 4053 range Underwood that had a 3-44 barrel date on it. Yet I had a 4013 range that has a 7-43 date on it.

[painter777]

Actually a tougher question to answer (at least for me) than one would think, with no books handy.

Underwood gets me confused easily.
UEF Serial Blocks;

1,350,000-1,449,999 ~Oct 42-Late June 43
But then Jumped to the 4 mil block ( 4,010,000-4,061,000 approx. Dec 42)
while awaiting the Sub-contracted T, W, S, and B Receivers.
At times building multiple serial blocks at the same time.

Etc..... Etc....

With all this confusion typed out.........
I'd believe a Stamped/Brazed Housing would be correctly found on a U 4,053,000

I have U 4,054,xxx with Brazed, believed correct TH for her.

Hoping I haven't run you off.... Hah

Cheers,
Charlie-Painter777

---------- Post added at 12:01 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:56 AM ----------

I had a 4053 range Underwood that had a 3-44 barrel date on it.

I have U 4,054,680 with 2-44 dated barrel.
I strongly believe it was finished up in the salvage block of 4,062,000-4,074,999 which Underwood completed spring of 44.

CH-Painter777

[flatrock]

Sorry but I can`t supply a bbl date as it has a Rockola bbl on it! Thanks for the replies----its a good shooter!

[Bruce McAskill]

Charlie, Underwood started with the type 4 trigger housing in the September 1943 time frame in the 4 million serial numbers. They finished off the 4 million block about January 1944.

[painter777]

Originally Posted by deldriver
I had a 4053 range Underwood that had a 3-44 barrel date on it.

I have U 4,054,680 with 2-44 dated barrel.
I strongly believe it was finished up in the salvage block of 4,062,000-4,074,999 which Underwood completed spring of 44.

CH-Painter777

Charlie, Underwood started with the type 4 trigger housing in the September 1943 time frame in the 4 million serial numbers. They finished off the 4 million block about January 1944.

Hi Bruce,
I have the similar info. UEF brought in the T 4 housing about Sep 43.
A chart I have shows the 4,010,000 getting started Dec 42 running out to serial 4,061,999 to end of Sep/1st of Oct 43.. Here's the snag, Either they didn't get as far as 4,061,999.... or started this block back up about 10,000 or so earlier in serial range, or had unfinished/ We'll get back to/receivers in the 4,05X,xxx range that weren't ready, then finished up when they got back to, What I call their salvage block (as in finishing up the 4 mil block) starting up again with 4,062,000 the first of Feb 44 and wrapping up with 4,074,999 end of March/1st of April 1944. Here is where you find some of these 4,053, 4,054 etc with later than expected 44 barrels.

I believe this is why we find so many like these 4,053,xxx and 4,054,xxx that have 2-44 and 3-44 dated barrels. They were scrambling at this time trying to wrap up the Sub receivers: First I believe they were finished with the S codes by the end of Jan 44, they were still going on the T, W, and B sub contract receivers, trying to finish up the rest of the UEF 2 mil block and their 6 mil block.... very busy there Jan - end of March in 44.
Not to mention the WA's or AW's.

I appreciate the help on the TH info and didn't mean to type an article at you, but have often ran across UEF's near the 4,05x,xxx range that often have 2,3 or 4 of 44 dated barrels that look original to the receiver.
Of course I wasn't at UEF in 1943-44 so I can't proof anything, just a gut feeling after seeing quite a few in this range...

I'll Email you later, was wondering how your better half was doing.
Hoping all is well.

Later Buddy,
Charlie-Painter777

[southfork]

Seems to me that most of the brazed Underwood trigger housings would have been in the 2 Million serial number block. Online sources indicate Underwood made only about 65,000 carbines in the 4 Million serial number range, but made over half a million carbines between July 43 and Feb 44 with serial numbers between 2.3M and 2.9M.

[ChipS]

Larry Ruth (M1 Carbine Owner's Guide, 2005) says Underwood produced up to approximate serial number 4046000 in September '43, at which time they stopped using the third block (4M range) serial numbers and started using second block (2M range) serial numbers, many on sub-contracted receivers. He also says they used strictly the second block numbers in Oct, Nov & Dec '43 and resumed using the third block numbers (along with the remaining second block numbers) in Jan '44. This kind of makes sense because all of the second block carbines and the later range of the third block carbines are seen with fabricated trigger housings, which may have existed in Sep '43 but may not have been in use until Oct '43. Craig Reisch says the changeover from milled to fabricated housings was at approximate serial number 4050000, which is pretty close to 4046000 when Ruth says they interrupted use of the third block (4M range) numbers until months later when the fabricated housings were then standard.

I don't have War Baby or CC newsletters, which may indicate otherwise, and the M1 Carbine Owner's Guide is getting pretty old, but original barrel dates on every Underwood carbine I have seen pretty much supports the timeline described above. FWIW, ChipS

[jimb16]

Southfork, the 4 mil range serials were broken into a couple of groups. The ~ 65000 number you quoted was for the first batch of 4 mils only. More were produced later in the 4 mil range.

[ChipS]

The ~ 65000 number you quoted was for the first batch of 4 mils only.

Better check that, Jim. Everything I've seen says the third Underwood assigned block was from 4,010,000 - 4074,999, or 65k serial numbers. Where I think southfork mis-quoted was the second block, from 2,352,520 - 2,912,519, which he sort of implied started in July '43. I think it is pretty well agreed all around that this 2nd block did not start intil late Sep or early Oct '43. Ruth says the 2nd block and 4th block (6M range) numbers were completed in Mar or Apr '44 and that several thousand of these 2nd and 4th block receivers were sold to Winchester. The only issue I have with Ruth's timeline is his assertion that the 3rd block (4M range) was completed in Feb '44. I have seen and heard of too many 4M Underwoods with original 3-44 barrels to believe they weren't still using the end of this block in Mar '44, but I suspect that was the last month for the 4M block and they finished up their contract in Apr with the 2M and 6M numbers. Again, current CC & War Baby trumps. JMHO, ChipS

BTW my 4,034,xxx Underwood has an 8-43 dated barrel that I'm pretty sure is original to the receiver.