Is this a Patchett sling?

[Beerhunter]

While we are on recycling. I use an L2 SMG sling as the shoulder strap for my shotgun cartridge bag. The bag itself is a webbing geiger counter case. Four twenty five cartridge boxes fit perfectly.

[stencollector]

I would LOVE to have a C1 in the collection! I have never seen one in the flesh, so to speak!

The nearest thing to one of these over here (& the rest of the World, I believe) is a Japanese Replica. )

There are some floating around Canada, albeit not many. Some were sold in their regular selective fire form to DCRA members back in the day. As well, at some point Canada sold or gave a bunch to the Congo. About 10 of these were later re-imported to Canada thru the UK. They were imported as converted auto (semi automatic).

A full auto one was sold a year or two ago at auction here in Canada and only went for around $1400 IIRC. That would reflect the scarcity of qualified buyers over the collectors value however. As a full auto, only grandfathered full auto owners could purchase it. That was cheap, when you consider that a more common Sterling will sell here for around 2K or more.

I have a deactivated C1 in my collection. In my short 30 years of collecting it was the only one I had the opportunity to buy and I am glad I did.

[browningautorifle]

As well, at some point Canada sold or gave a bunch to the Congo.

I'd be curious as to where that info came from?

[Peter Laidler]

I'm with BAR here...... Can you quantify/qualify that Congo connection SC? I ask because Sterling were ruthless about the commercial sales of their guns and as such even Indian ones are as rare as rocking horsh sh....., er, manure. Lithgow were also banned from sales of their F1/Sterling magazines although they DID sell some to Malaysia(?) with Sterlings approval PLUS their rightful share of the royalties plus costs. David Howroyd told me that Canada were the only people who stuck rigidly to their word.

We had a RE (Royal Engineers) Officer, Capt. Tubby Txxxxxx (he wasn't tubby at all..... He was 6' 6" tall and as skinny as a rake!) in the Congo 'attached' to the Mines Advisory and Clearance group who were de-mining the place. He sent us pages and pages of stuff plus photos that we could have including L-B Mk2 Sten guns (plenty.....) but never saw a C1 among it or in a picture. We had some things and it's fair to say that getting a couple of LB Stens plus odds and sods from the Congo via the High Commission/Military attache was EASIER than getting a single live C1 from Canada. Less paperwork too. And when I left, we STILL didn't have one!

[stencollector]

I personally cannot. But here is a post from someone over on gunnutz who seems to have some info:

That said, I have an ex-OPP 8L Series C1A1 that goes back a few years. It is so mint that it doesn't even have any scratches on the butt-plate.

A bit of trivia - the company that bought the ex-OPP C1A1s was SIDEM UK. They are the same surplus firearms dealer that sourced, modified, and sold to other Commonwealth countries the Portuguese and Sudanese-surplus original AR-10 rifles from 1959-1960.

Not to mention the 3 x converted-auto C1 SMGs (Sterlings) that are in private hands in Canada. I know, because I have a copy of the original invoice coming from the Congo (based on an earllier Canadian military assistance sale) that has my gun's serial number listed with 3 other Canadian xSxxxx numbers on the import list. There are a grand total of 3 x CA Canadian manufactured C1 SMGs in private hands in Canada.

Just a bit of info on a select group of Canadian prohibs for anyone who is interested.

There is also this from the store owner who imported the SMG C1s:

We did get a hold of some C-1 SMG's that had been left behind by peace keeping forces in Africa. There was a considerable flap when I marketed them because they were assumed to have been stolen here in Canada but the matter got sorted out in the end.

So it looks like I was wrong on the quantity though...it may be just 3 CAs. I did a search for SMG C1s on one of those online Canadian registries, and I think I came up with between 10 and 20 in total .Only thing is the registry is a bit of a mess, and some were registered as Sterlings, while some were registered as C1s. Since the online database only listed partial information it was hard to decipher it fully.

The production quantity of the C1 SMG, based on the serial numbers, is thought to be approx 30,000. I did run the stock number back in the late 90s and at that time there remained 24,000 in the depots. The shortage of approx 6,000 is a little high to expain away by reasoning that some were lost or damaged.

I may have a source for more information. But it will be a while before I run into him again, so hopefully I'll remember to ask.

[Vincent]

I have a deactivated C1 in my collection. In my short 30 years of collecting it was the only one I had the opportunity to buy and I am glad I did.

Could you post some detailed pictures of the sights and magazine well? Please Please

This is what I have found after two decades of searching.

[browningautorifle]

But here is a post from someone over on gunnutz who seems to have some info:

Don't get me wrong, I don't want to start a fight about this...

I know we keep hearing about this from time to time and it's hard to sort out. When it comes to a businessman saying this gun came from here or there...I have little faith in that. Guns could have been lost in battle in Africa, stolen during Somalia for instance...or another mission. Then trickled through someone's purchase system. (There were a few C7s lost during the Bosnian campaign, so they're out there) But I spent 35 years dealing with all this while in. I was assured our weapons weren't going anywhere but the smelters or on trophy plaques for display. There was a rumor that the FNs would be sold or given to a banana republic, and this was just a rumor started by those who wished they were in a banana republic to get one. I know the SMGs were out of magazines back in '95 when we asked for some for our foreign weapons display in Gagetown in the SA wing. The FNs were reduced to 0 strength by the JTF shooters in Afghanistan early on... Yes, the DCRA had some from way back. Love to see some of those...where they are now...but I think that's the most of what got out of CAL...

[Peter Laidler]

I think that you are right there BAR. I work on the principle that if we, the UK MoD Small Arms School faced soooooo many difficulties getting one from the originator, then........... Best bet seems to be make a simply fabricated repro like Vince is doing.

Point to notice from Vince's photos above, that Canada/L-B considered the double return spring to be a frill if not a complete fraud. There was a lot of discussion about it's use. After all, the first/inner spring was already half compressed and loaded down when you inserted the cocking handle! So effectively, it was redundant - sort of.......! Nope..... In my opinion, the remaining possible loading of the inner spring MIGHT serve some useful purpose but I haven't discovered what it is yet. Possibly all it does is prevent the cocking handle from rattling. But that's all!

[browningautorifle]

Our bolt was a simple machine job, our mag followers were stamped, our trigger was a basic...many shortcuts...they worked ok though.

[stencollector]

I'm pretty sure that had the SMGs in question been lost or stolen, and then later retrieved and re-imported to Canada, they would have been re-claimed by the Canadian Government. Certainly the USA does this, even with material they left behind such as during their hasty withdrawal from Vietnam back in the day.

As I said, I'll query further on this and see what comes up.